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'Pulling the rug' from under the feet of "peacecful believers"?
April 20, 2015 at 12:46 pm
(This post was last modified: April 20, 2015 at 12:51 pm by ReptilianPeon.)
People often say how much they hate terrorism and are always wanting believers to condemn terrorism. Many amoungst us Kathir claim to support "peaceful believers", reformers even, such as those at the Quilliam Foundation, and I'm guilty of this myself, but then say the killers are the only ones who are following the Quran properly. Do you think this is 'pulling any (metaphorical) rugs' from under the feet of anybody? This is an accusation I've heard.
I would say given that, yes, ISIS are following the Quran properly this is an excellent advert for Atheism. Sure, the majority of those dying in the fight against ISIS are Muhammadans, but they are Kurds (secular) and Shia, in particular those from Mr. Assad's Alawite branch (who make up about 10% of Syria's population) and any supported by those evil Iranians who may not be so evil after all. Shias and Kurds have to fight ISIS else they will die as they wouldn't survive in the Caliphate. Whereas, I'm sure many Sunnis, in particular in Iraq and Syria where Sunnis have been fighting Shia for years now, in the area quietly sympathize with ISIS even if they don't overtly support them.
Sure, I want to try and get along with these "peaceful believers" and, sure, the government needs to protect people against hate crime but I don't think being intellectually honest is pulling any rugs from under the feet of the "peaceful believers", do you? The believes need to stop denying the content that's in the Quran. Believers need realize that the Quran is arguably as bad as the Old Testament in terms of violence. Each time I turn a new page in my Quran I'm worried about what concerning verses I'll find next.
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RE: 'Pulling the rug' from under the feet of "peacecful believers"?
April 20, 2015 at 12:54 pm
I missed the part where you are a reputed scholar that knows perfectly how the quran works and how to read it. Have you even bothered to read the quran and at least watch a few youtube videos to see how divergent opinions can be?
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you
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RE: 'Pulling the rug' from under the feet of "peacecful believers"?
April 20, 2015 at 12:56 pm
Quote:I missed the part where you are a reputed scholar that knows perfectly how the quran works and how to read it.
Not necessary. Any asshole with a koran and a big mouth can run it and attract followers.
Similar to xtianity in that regard.
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RE: 'Pulling the rug' from under the feet of "peacecful believers"?
April 20, 2015 at 12:58 pm
(April 20, 2015 at 12:56 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Quote:I missed the part where you are a reputed scholar that knows perfectly how the quran works and how to read it.
Not necessary. Any asshole with a koran and a big mouth can run it and attract followers.
Similar to xtianity in that regard.
And? The majority of people in the world are ignorant and have an iq lower than 100. It's not a surprise anything attracts them. That's not relevant. You don't even need to read the quran to be a Muslim.
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you
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RE: 'Pulling the rug' from under the feet of "peacecful believers"?
April 20, 2015 at 1:15 pm
One additional thought to that.
All you have to do is live in a country where the majority thinks they are muslim and you had damn well BETTER call yourself one.
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RE: 'Pulling the rug' from under the feet of "peacecful believers"?
April 20, 2015 at 1:20 pm
(April 20, 2015 at 1:15 pm)Minimalist Wrote: One additional thought to that.
All you have to do is live in a country where the majority thinks they are muslim and you had damn well BETTER call yourself one.
Why? In Saudi yeah, but it is an extreme example - It's like saying North Korea justifies communism being evil. Do you think communism is an evil doctrine?
In Iran there's Christian ministers, politicians and there's protection for Christians and churches.
In Morocco you have people on the beach enjoying their lives.
I think what you say is true but again from what I've read here you better call yourself a Christian in America otherwise you're fucked.
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you
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RE: 'Pulling the rug' from under the feet of "peacecful believers"?
April 20, 2015 at 1:45 pm
(April 20, 2015 at 12:54 pm)Dystopia Wrote: I missed the part where you are a reputed scholar that knows perfectly how the quran works and how to read it. Have you even bothered to read the quran and at least watch a few youtube videos to see how divergent opinions can be? I have a copy of the Quran on a bookshelf and I mentioned this in my post above. Opinions are diverse but the term Immam has traditionally referred to simply a "knowledge person", if I remember correctly. You don't need any formal qualifications to declare yourself an Immam, or even a Sheikh it seems. Some really ignorant people (e.g. Yusuf Estes) are often referred to as Sheikhs.
Believers are always trying to make excuses for the religious texts. Christians try and explain away the violence of the Old Testament in the same way that Muhammadans are saying the Quran doesn't really advocate violence. Muhamadans agree the Old Testament is extremely violent in same way that Christians say the Quran is full of violence.
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RE: 'Pulling the rug' from under the feet of "peacecful believers"?
April 20, 2015 at 1:47 pm
Sorry for saying this but in Christianity you can simply look at the "Love Thy Neighbour" tale and ignore the rest of the bad things. This is what my friends do and it's theologically viable if you believe that commandment from Jesus is more important. Leviticus hates gays but Leviticus also supports slavery and atheists seem more concerned about it than Christians .
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you
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RE: 'Pulling the rug' from under the feet of "peacecful believers"?
April 20, 2015 at 1:50 pm
The Quran is full of violence but towards those who oppressed the believers and fought them just because they believe in a religion that opposed their religions, it specifically is peaceful to those who stayed true to the treaties and to those who didn't fight them. And even while fighting them, it was calling for peace, saying if they incline to peace or stop their prosecution and allow people to have whatever religion they want for the sake of God, then to stop fighting them. And verses after later about those who had no intention of keeping peace, but would keep breaking the treaties, and attack believers, it said to fight them till they die or submit. But even that was a temporary command, and as the Seerah shows, after the victory, they were forgiven.
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RE: 'Pulling the rug' from under the feet of "peacecful believers"?
April 20, 2015 at 3:56 pm
(This post was last modified: April 20, 2015 at 3:56 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Pretext Mystic, pretext. It's utility has never been lost. What are -all- of the jihadis claiming to be doing?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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