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RE: Is Eternal Life Even Desireable?
April 23, 2015 at 5:15 am
(April 22, 2015 at 6:49 pm)noctalla Wrote: Recently, I encountered a Christian who asked me what atheists believe happens after death. I suspect the question was posed partly out of genuine curiosity, but with an underlying assumption that, whatever atheists believe, Christians believe in a more desireable outcome. When answering, I started off by saying that it depends on the atheist, in an attempt to convey the fact that there is a great plurality of beliefs among atheists. Then I went on to say that I personally think an individual (at least as far as their conciousness and experience is concerned) ceases to exist after death. Then they asked me, with what appeared to be a mixture of incomprehension, condescention and pity (lol), if I was scared of the thought of not existing. I wasn't really sure how to answer this part. Despite the many less than desireable aspects of existing, I am overall quite satisfied with the experience and am in no hurry to hasten my inevitable death. In fact, I would fight tooth and nail to stay alive, if I had to. But, while dying scares me a quite a bit, I'm not really scared of not existing, because there is literally nothing to be scared of (though I admit I am somewhat unsettled by the thought). At this point I thought I'd turn the question around on the Christian. I assumed (correctly as it turns out) that they believed they would look forward to everlasting life after they died. So I asked them if they were scared of everlasting life. They weren't. I think they assumed I was making a joke, because their reaction suggested that it had never even occured to them that existence without end could possibly be anything other than a good thing. I think this attitude betrays a total incomprehension of the implications of eternity. The thought of existence without end scares me much more than not existing. And the more I think about it, the more it seems to me that my views on what happens after we die are far more desireable than what Christians believe. I could expound further, but I've gone on long enough and I'd like to hear if anyone else has considered the matter.
I've personally never been more afraid in my life than I have been at the thought of eternity and eternal life. It started at about 9 when I was a christian and I asked people would I not get bored spending that much time in heaven, take the 75 years or so I spend on earth, multiply that by a million, multiply that by a billion billion then multiply that by a trillion trillion trillion and it still won't even be a fraction of the amount of time in heaven so boredom would probably turn into insanity and I'd just be left as a stagnant drooling wreck forever on a cloud. It didn't really matter if there was no heaven just the thought of anything forever scared me.
This thought would actually make me physically shake with fear at night, it only stopped when I started puberty and sex distracted me. Now I just calm myself by thinking that when it comes to time and eternity the human brain doesn't really comprehend it and maybe eternity doesn't exist. And the human brain is only evolved to be bored because of evolution and that's the way it's formed to cope with life on earth.
Are you ready for the fire? We are firemen. WE ARE FIREMEN! The heat doesn’t bother us. We live in the heat. We train in the heat. It tells us that we’re ready, we’re at home, we’re where we’re supposed to be. Flames don’t intimidate us. What do we do? We control the flame. We control them. We move the flames where we want to. And then we extinguish them.
Impersonation is treason.
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Is Eternal Life Even Desireable?
April 23, 2015 at 6:17 am
It's not a good thing death is it? Like has been said, the best you can hope for is a painless transition after a reasonable number of years. I agree that 70-80 is a bit of a let down, a couple of hundred would really give you a sense of the human race progressing (or not perhaps). I wonder how an average age of 200 would effect your outlook on life and how you treat others.
I know one thing, I don't feel at ease (rightly or wrongly) with the topic when my children are around. There's that blissful period of eternal sunshine filled childhood days playing in the garden when death is simply not relevant. I really don't like to push them forward to the day when you completely accept your mortality.
My 11 year old is quite blase about it but only because it probably still resides in the part of the brain that deals with 'things that happen to other people'. He's smart enough though so I'm sure we'll have the conversation soon enough. Neither of my kids have taken a fancy to any gods or afterlife myths yet so they both face that jarring reality at some point in the future. It makes me sadder to reconcile myself with the fact that my children will face death than it does to face death myself to be honest.
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RE: Is Eternal Life Even Desireable?
April 23, 2015 at 6:29 am
I've said it often enough before - I don't want any part of an eternal afterlife that I can't opt out of at any time I choose. I already have that freedom in this life, despite its transience; to be denied it post mortem, if such a thing is real, ought to be part of the definition of hell if it isn't already. Even if, as I desperately wish, I get to spend eternity with my precious Sam (and now Shell), there will inevitably come a point when we choose oblivion together rather than endure another moment of existing.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Is Eternal Life Even Desireable?
April 23, 2015 at 7:24 am
Whether eternal life is desirable depends on what kind of life it is. Forever's a long time, but it's a pretty big universe. Add a slight memory decay, and you could discover and rediscover all the wonders of the universe perfectly happily.
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RE: Is Eternal Life Even Desireable?
April 23, 2015 at 9:41 am
(This post was last modified: April 23, 2015 at 9:43 am by Goon.)
I thought the entire point of atheism was stating you believe in no afterlife? lol. I would enjoy a spiritual utopia filled with marijuana and free booze. I guess it could include dead people.. but i'd take the marijuana and booze first out of eternal necessity.
(April 23, 2015 at 6:29 am)Stimbo Wrote: I've said it often enough before - I don't want any part of an eternal afterlife that I can't opt out of at any time I choose. I already have that freedom in this life, despite its transience; to be denied it post mortem, if such a thing is real, ought to be part of the definition of hell if it isn't already. Even if, as I desperately wish, I get to spend eternity with my precious Sam (and now Shell), there will inevitably come a point when we choose oblivion together rather than endure another moment of existing. Ever heard of anti-depressants? They morph your depression into a stable and manageable state.. Try them.
Do you know how to spot a moron? They use the word "evolutionist"... lol
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RE: Is Eternal Life Even Desireable?
April 23, 2015 at 9:44 am
Atheism is saying you don't believe in gods. You can still believe in ghosts, and be an atheist.
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RE: Is Eternal Life Even Desireable?
April 23, 2015 at 9:45 am
(This post was last modified: April 23, 2015 at 9:47 am by Goon.)
(April 22, 2015 at 8:49 pm)Polaris Wrote: Depends entirely on how you will use that eternal existence.
I'm assuming you mean something stupid. You believe in Christian eternity.. where you bow and worship a genocidal maniac for all eternity. There is no other way to spend your eternity, in your eyes. I'm talking about Heaven, not hell. How could you use that eternal existence differently? You couldn't and probably wouldn't(lame ass).
(April 23, 2015 at 9:44 am)Chad32 Wrote: Atheism is saying you don't believe in gods. You can still believe in ghosts, and be an atheist.
How? Could an apparition exist without a god? no.
Do you know how to spot a moron? They use the word "evolutionist"... lol
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RE: Is Eternal Life Even Desireable?
April 23, 2015 at 9:51 am
We don't have any concrete set on what a god is, or what a soul is, so we can't say anything about either for sure. It's like talking about what a vampire is, and what it can do. Stories vary wildly because no one has a Vampire to show for testing.
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RE: Is Eternal Life Even Desireable?
April 23, 2015 at 10:22 am
(April 22, 2015 at 7:55 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: I'm sure there will be Bingo and Shuffleboards. Who doesn't like that?
"Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent."
~ Ludwig Wittgenstein
If there's a God, and he's not a total bumbler, I'm sure he's got something figured out. Besides, how little do we worry about the endless amounts of time in our life that we just let slip away. It would just be videogames and ho-ho's on a larger scale.
And sing songs about "Not Lieing"
Sorry had to quote something from South Park :-P
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RE: Is Eternal Life Even Desireable?
April 23, 2015 at 1:30 pm
(April 22, 2015 at 6:57 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: As for not existing, that is what you did in the year 1800. So that is what the year 2200 will be like for you.
There is however an asymmetry here, because it's not the nonexistence itself we are talking about, but our attitude toward nonexistence past and future while we exist now. I'm not too bothered by my nonexistence in 1800, but for some reason I find the idea of not being there to see Kirk and Spock fire their phasers at the Horta - an act they later regretted when they discovered the Horta was a silicon mother who was attacking people only because they were smashing her eggs - a bit disappointing.
(April 22, 2015 at 6:49 pm)noctalla Wrote: So I asked them if they were scared of everlasting life. They weren't. ... I think this attitude betrays a total incomprehension of the implications of eternity.
Indeed. Nobody's popped the question. It's not so much a matter of fright or the lack thereof, but that nonexistence and e ternal existence are condemned to remain forever incomprehensible to us. (Oops, I meant for the rest of our lives.  )
While I remain a theist with a deep attachment to the meanings discovered by Christianity and respect for truths of other religions as well, I'm through with religion itself because it refuses to ask the hard questions and admit we simply don't know the answers. Ditto for many strains of atheism I think overextend (philishophical) materialism to be an end all. Just because we need invoke no deity to explain physical cosmology within a materialist framework doesn't mean there are no good reasons for believing in the divine, provided we don't put it in a box.
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