Shots fired in Dallas of mohammed cartoons.

[Minimalist]

[Mudhammam]

Nothing is more ironic to me than the argument of Muslim apologists (most of whom, as I've encountered, are not even Muslim) who say, "Yes, a person has the right to offend 1.7 billion Muslims but common sense says they should not do so." It seems to boil down to the erroneous notion that all religion, no matter how perverse, somehow deserves the privilege of outside respect. Really, it's amusing (and why I say ironic) that the people who want to defend "the respect" that Islam (or any other faith) "deserves" want to introduce common sense into the debate. What could be more nonsensical (though, unfortunately, all too common) than devoting one's self to a religion that is as superstitious and immoral as those which are chiefly derived from the Qur'an or the Bible? And why am I obliged to tolerate, in terms of speech of course, a book that views my life as an unbeliever so utterly devoid of hope and value as those? Where's the outrage at Muslims and Christians and anyone else who takes on a label that carries such derision and bigotry towards infidels, heretics, and apostates? Why does no one cite bigotry when "neocons" are derided? (Because, to self-proclaimed liberals, it's rightly observed that neoconservatives hold beliefs which are hugely problematic and destructive to the world... and yet they're blind to this in the case of religion, which is typically far more neoconservative than anything intrinsic to the term "New Atheism," which seems to be on the receiving end of many verbal attacks as of late). And another thing, people in the West have been unceasing in their mockery of Christianity for the past couple of hundred years, and I have heard not a peep from these (irreligious) religious apologists. What the fuck is that shit? [/rant]

[Minimalist]

"Yes, a person has the right to offend 1.7 billion Muslims but common sense says they should not do so."

I don't have a problem with that.

BUT.  Being "offended" does not give you the right to kill someone.  That is where islam needs to grow the fuck up.

[downbeatplumb]

Some people just look for reasons to be offended.
A bit like my wife when she's PMT, she looks for things to complain about.

[DeistPaladin]

BUT.  Being "offended" does not give you the right to kill someone.  That is where islam needs to grow the fuck up.

Something else that's important to remember: Islamo-Christians, or at least the ones extreme enough to act out violently toward acts of "blasphemy", have no boundaries where they will not be offended.

Even the discovery that you don't share their religion may be enough to "offend" them. There is no criticism of their religion that is gentle enough or academic enough to avoid hurting their feelings. 

Anyone crazy enough to get a gun and travel by car to go shoot some people for drawing cartoons, or perhaps even standing too close to people who draw cartoons, could also be motivated to shoot someone for being gay, for being an unbeliever or for having political ideas that don't conform to their religion. 

The more sensitive we are to religion, the more sensitive we will have to be. 

[Mudhammam]

"Yes, a person has the right to offend 1.7 billion Muslims but common sense says they should not do so."

I don't have a problem with that.

I find that fairly surprising since you of all people seem eager to cut down religious figureheads whenever the opportunity presents itself. And why not? What wisdom is there in this notion that, "Yeah, you people believe in radically unsupported ideas about the world, and you give them priority above all else, but because there are many of you and only a few of us, it's best to keep silent and allow your superstition to spread unopposed." I don't think people realize that part of the culture war that secularism confronts in religion, and one of the reasons for the former's relatively recent success in the West, is the ability to take these superfluous beliefs that people treat with utmost seriousness and make them appear to be what they in fact are---totally unserious, and even flat-out silly. That's why, as disdainful as the event organizers in Garland are in my view, "Draw Muhammad events," or anything that mocks religion in literature and art, is something secularists ought to fully support (as well as the mocking of our own "figureheads" when they say or do something or inspire others to think or behave a certain way, as for example Dawkins, whose snobbishness often appears obnoxious to me and it equally fruitful when he's derided for it). I think it's critical in shaping how future generations will think about these prophetic characters and the ridiculous belief systems they continually inspire.

[Minimalist]

I find that fairly surprising since you of all people seem eager to cut down religious figureheads whenever the opportunity presents itself.

Why?  I've never killed anyone but I constantly berate idiots who believe in invisible sky-daddies.  Cutting them down with words is fine - to any one except the religious fuckheads on the receiving end and don't think the jesus freaks over here are not envious of the imams' ability to issue fatwas calling for the death of anyone who does.  But in the west they are screwed.
Geller did not kill a single muslim.  She offered a prize for a drawing.  That two assholes ended up dead is no ones fault but their own.

Grow up, muslims.  You are not special.

And neither is your fucking god.

Or his fucking prophet.

[Mudhammam]

I find that fairly surprising since you of all people seem eager to cut down religious figureheads whenever the opportunity presents itself.

Why?  I've never killed anyone but I constantly berate idiots who believe in invisible sky-daddies.  Cutting them down with words is fine - to any one except the religious fuckheads on the receiving end and don't think the jesus freaks over here are not envious of the imams' ability to issue fatwas calling for the death of anyone who does.  But in the west they are screwed.
Geller did not kill a single muslim.  She offered a prize for a drawing.  That two assholes ended up dead is no ones fault but their own.

Grow up, muslims.  You are not special.

And neither is your fucking god.

Or his fucking prophet.

Oh, okay. We agree. I thought you were saying, "I don't have a problem with..." the hordes criticizing the event itself for going out of its way to mock a religion that is worthy of nothing but scorn.

[Minimalist]

My problem with muslims is that while they don't mind being barbarians they get way too upset when they are called barbarians.

Tough.  Sucks to be them.

Be less barbaric.

[vorlon13]

{bad link, sorry}