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Assertiveness that works?
#21
RE: Assertiveness that works?
(May 6, 2015 at 1:09 pm)Evidence vs Faith Wrote: Definitely


Stop telling yourself "I can't do this and I don't do that." Perception is reality.  I'm not talking shit to you, man. I am legally blind and hearing impaired   If anybody has an excuse to fail, I do. But I have a masters degree in English and am working on my fourth novel. I don't say this to brag but to let you know the things you need to do may be hard but they are not impossible.
The god who allows children to be raped out of respect for the free will choice of the rapist, but punishes gay men for engaging in mutually consensual sex couldn't possibly be responsible for an intelligently designed universe.

I may defend your right to free speech, but i won't help you pass out flyers.

Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.
--Voltaire

Nietzsche isn't dead. How do I know he lives? He lives in my mind.
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#22
RE: Assertiveness that works?
FNM has the right of it, Evie. If you don't believe you deserve to be heard, or that your opinions are worth something, you cannot possibly hope to be assertive.

You have to work on your self image and your self esteem. It seems you have something most young people lack, which is the ability to accurately self assess. You are able to see your weaknesses, but you have to be able to set small, attainable goals to build your self worth. It's most definitely not a switch that can be flipped. It takes years of work and maybe even therapy to work these things out. That's why the short term is so important. Set the small goals, reach them, fail sometimes, but learn from the failures. Become, slowly, the person you want to be. Then, asserting yourself comes more easily.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great

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#23
RE: Assertiveness that works?
The problem that most people have, as SC mentioned above, is that they feel like the way other people see them is important. To be honest, no matter how people view you, it isn't worth worrying over.
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#24
RE: Assertiveness that works?
Goal setting does nothing for me. Have no ambitions and goals other than feeling better. If I could be more assertive I would feel better. If I could feel better before being assertive I wouldn't need to be assertive.
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#25
RE: Assertiveness that works?
(May 4, 2015 at 6:44 am)EvidenceVersusFaith Wrote: I feel that in the real world winning arguments is less about being "right" or "wrong" and more about a social dominance that I don't have and never have.

A statement which I believe is true and probably why assertiveness training doesn't work for everyone. The other side won't listen patiently while you "assert" your rights, but takes control immediately by using command tone of voice and "talking you down." You don't get a word in edgewise. Not everyone has command presence. And not having it is somewhat of a disadvantage, especially in societies like ours that emphasize the individual persona.

The only antidote I know of is making supportive friends and allies, and doing things to help other people. Helping other people isn't just "good," it makes it easier to get the needed friends. But I don't claim to offer advice; my life wasn't a paragon of success anyone would want to imitate.  Big Grin

(May 6, 2015 at 3:18 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote: Stop telling yourself "I can't do this and I don't do that." Perception is reality.

The first statement may or may not be good advice, depending on its context. The second statement is definitely false. Perception is not external reality and we do not have the power to create our own reality. If that were true, then no one in the world would be in a bad situation because they would "create" a better one. Just because Stephen Hawking could be a physics professor despite quadriplegia doesn't mean everyone else can do it, and ditto for the many other Horatio Alger stories we love so much in the USA.

If the first statement simply advises against sitting on one's rumpus, then it might be OK. Undesirable situations and presence of limitations or frailties don't excuse laziness or defeatism. It's important to select realistic goals, though, and stick to them, and expect lots of pain along the way. You have to fight and win some battles if you want social standing; there really aren't any shortcuts.  Wink
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#26
RE: Assertiveness that works?
(May 7, 2015 at 5:25 am)EvidenceVersusFaith Wrote: Goal setting does nothing for me. Have no ambitions and goals other than feeling better. If I could be more assertive I would feel better. If I could feel better before being assertive I wouldn't need to be assertive.

I've asked you before about your situation. Why do these people "own your ass?" Why does saying no put you at a disadvantage? Without that information, we'll just keep giving you irrelevant advise and you'll keep telling us what you can't do.
The god who allows children to be raped out of respect for the free will choice of the rapist, but punishes gay men for engaging in mutually consensual sex couldn't possibly be responsible for an intelligently designed universe.

I may defend your right to free speech, but i won't help you pass out flyers.

Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.
--Voltaire

Nietzsche isn't dead. How do I know he lives? He lives in my mind.
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#27
RE: Assertiveness that works?
I am just dependent on others. It is my fault for not being independent years ago.
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#28
RE: Assertiveness that works?
(May 7, 2015 at 5:25 am)EvidenceVersusFaith Wrote: Goal setting does nothing for me. Have no ambitions and goals other than feeling better. 

Try again....and get some (they don;t even have to be "good" - don't agonize, say, "I'm going to get a grey 4 door sedan")?  This stuff doesn't "just happen" for other people either...you know....  You've identified the problem, above....with an added side of guilt and shame, of course....lol, but that should be all you need.  Try to fix that, and if what you do doesn't work...try something else.  Throw shit at the wall until something sticks.  

-There you are, I've given you a step by step manual on assertiveness that is unambiguous and easy to follow.  It may never help you to -feel- assertive......but if you asked someone watching you try until shit stuck whether or not you -were- assertive..............you want it, go get it.

"I am relentless, I am always there, now and forever, follow me" - Some "poetry" to help...lol

(assertiveness, command, leadership...these are all about "doing things", if you do things..people will follow, period. You don't need an argument, you don't need to persuade. Assertive people follow other assertive people, everyone switches hats....they are not significantly different from you, nor you from them - "The Myth of Command" - sort of stuff. Assertiveness that works is not an elusive attribute, it is the effect of hard work. Grain of salt in all of this, of course...because thats my indoctrination talking whether what I said is true or not....lol)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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