I NEED logical support...

[Cato]

My grandmother was 93 when she passed, and like yours her cognitive faculties were acute until the end. I mention this so that you know I have some experience with what I am about to say.

I never obsessed over my grandmother's future and inevitable demise, but as she got older it wasn't uncommon to consider. I'll assume you had similar thoughts. Now ask yourself, are you considering all the times you thought about her dying and she didn't in your evaluation?

[rsngfrce]

What level of hospice care was she in?  There are generally 4 levels.

I don't even know. She was living at a very NICE rest home, where she was very happy. My parents wanted her to live with them, but she did not want to be a bother (typical)...

[henryp]

Some combination of subconscious analysis based on your understanding of the severity of being in a hospice a 2nd time combined with your subconscious analysis of her health last time you visited, all served with a bit of coincidence?

[SteelCurtain]

Without any particular forewarning? She was in hospice. People who are in hospice die. That's what it is for.

I hope I can get a better level of response than this. I am not an idiot. As I said, she was in hospice FOR THE SECOND TIME! The first time was almost two years ago. Hospice = dead within 6 months. Despite the fact that she was in hospice AGAIN, the last time I saw her, she was great. I don't have to spell out every single detail, accept the truth of what I am saying please!

Do you expect us to have a logical explanation for what you experienced based on the 6 lines you fucking posted and not knowing anything at all about your grandmother's illness and other factors? Your insistence that you are not an idiot is a shaky position. Sorry I didn't tell you what you wanted to hear.

Yes. People come out of hospice all the time. Not the norm, but the body has amazing abilities to recover when we think it won't. The incidence of a person coming out of hospice a second time is much lower. Not having those numbers in front of me, mind you, but it seems an unassailable point.

Subconsciously, we pick up on cues we are not fully aware of. You saying this happened with no warning is stupid. She was in hospice. You at least knew that she could die. She was 97. My grandma turned 93 four days ago. She's not in hospice, but if she died today, I couldn't be surprised. And the very fact that I'm talking about her now would seem eerie. The fact is that you visited your grandma recently, and you likely picked up on some signs that things were nearing the end. Hospice workers will recount smells that are very faint that they pick up on after working with so many dying patients, they will report elevation in mood right at the end. Lots of things that may seem good would have been just out of sorts enough for your subconscious to pick up on it, her to be on your mind, and your brain to connect the dots, even if you are not fully aware of it.

If you want us to laud your psychic skills, you're barking up the wrong tree. If you want us to come to some sort of epiphany regarding an internet stranger's supernatural tale, good luck.

[Homeless Nutter]

Coincidence. Events that are very, very improbable happen all the time. That's because there's a mind-boggling lot of things happening in the universe.
/thread

[rsngfrce]

My grandmother was 93 when she passed, and like yours her cognitive faculties were acute until the end. I mention this so that you know I have some experience with what I am about to say.

I never obsessed over my grandmother's future and inevitable demise, but as she got older it wasn't uncommon to consider. I'll assume you had similar thoughts. Now ask yourself, are you considering all the times you thought about her dying and she didn't in your evaluation?

THAT is a very FAIR question! I already answered it to a degree. It WOULD be the most logical answer, without a doubt. However, while I knew she WOULD die, I honestly never believe I expected her to die until yesterday. When she was placed in hospice the second time, which I think was about a month or so ago, I told both her and my parents that the doctors DON'T KNOW HER, I KNOW HER! She was sent home from the hospital with oxygen tanks which she never needed, as I knew would be the case. Within a few days of being placed in hospice, she was back to normal!

So, while I cannot absolutely rule out the possibility of what you are saying, it just doesn't seem to apply.

Amazing coincidence?

[Brian37]

So... I've just joined and this is my first post ever on an Atheist forum. I am an Atheist. The reason I am posting is because of an occurrence which has forced me to question my logic and I am looking for input from those who may possess a better understanding (to the degree that is possible) of these things than I do.

My grandmother was 97 years old. I had a very special bond with her, she was the relative that I inherited my intelligence from. She believed in god, but at her age, I cannot blame her for that.

She had been in poor psychical health for a long time and was in hospice for the SECOND time. Mentally, at age 97, she was 100%! She was strong proof that mental strength beats psychical strength any day. I was always convinced that she would live until she was ready to go.

Without any particular forewarning, I knew she was going to die yesterday. When she died yesterday, I knew it happened. I am serious, I am not trolling, this is not easy for me!

I struggle to understand how I could have LOGICALLY both known this was going to and did happen. I had some connection to her that was cut (or something) and I can't understand the existence of that in a logical world...  


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No, you did not have a forewarning. I don't doubt you had a feeling, that felt real. But it is a false perception based on selection bias and sample rate error. There are lots of times in your life where other people have near misses or do die where you don't have that feeling. It is retrofitting after the fact subconsciously. There are other times where you worried about her and nothing happened, but you ignored those times . 

With my own mom, I have freaked out over a perceived heath issue, for it only to turn out to be minor, where as other times I have been blindsided with a phone call from her retirement home that she was on her way to the hospital. 

To know how wrong that false perception is, you need to look back at your entire life with other family and friends who died where you didn't have that "feeling".  They don't even need to die, they can also have a severe sudden medical problem, or be involved in an accident. Other people also make that claim in that context as well.

You also have to think about the fact that every human dies, and on average worldwide 50 million humans die from everything from old age, stillborn, childhood cancer, natural disaster, crime, famine, disease and war. 

Humans make claims like this all the time and it is simply your own false perceptions. I am sure you loved your grandma, and it always sucks to lose a loved one, but your feeling of seeing it coming was false. 

[rsngfrce]

I hope I can get a better level of response than this. I am not an idiot. As I said, she was in hospice FOR THE SECOND TIME! The first time was almost two years ago. Hospice = dead within 6 months. Despite the fact that she was in hospice AGAIN, the last time I saw her, she was great. I don't have to spell out every single detail, accept the truth of what I am saying please!

Do you expect us to have a logical explanation for what you experienced based on the 6 lines you fucking posted and not knowing anything at all about your grandmother's illness and other factors? Your insistence that you are not an idiot is a shaky position. Sorry I didn't tell you what you wanted to hear.

Yes. People come out of hospice all the time. Not the norm, but the body has amazing abilities to recover when we think it won't. The incidence of a person coming out of hospice a second time is much lower. Not having those numbers in front of me, mind you, but it seems an unassailable point.

Subconsciously, we pick up on cues we are not fully aware of. You saying this happened with no warning is stupid. She was in hospice. You at least knew that she could die. She was 97. My grandma turned 93 four days ago. She's not in hospice, but if she died today, I couldn't be surprised. And the very fact that I'm talking about her now would seem eerie. The fact is that you visited your grandma recently, and you likely picked up on some signs that things were nearing the end. Hospice workers will recount smells that are very faint that they pick up on after working with so many dying patients, they will report elevation in mood right at the end. Lots of things that may seem good would have been just out of sorts enough for your subconscious to pick up on it, her to be on your mind, and your brain to connect the dots, even if you are not fully aware of it.

If you want us to laud your psychic skills, you're barking up the wrong tree. If you want us to come to some sort of epiphany regarding an internet stranger's supernatural tale, good luck.

You're a jerk (to put it lightly), I'll leave it at that..

[JesusHChrist]

I don't have to spell out every single detail, accept the truth of what I am saying please!

Truth of what exactly?

[rsngfrce]

I don't have to spell out every single detail, accept the truth of what I am saying please!

Truth of what exactly?

Poor choice of words...