Stump the Christian?

[The Grand Nudger]

You should pay us a nickle every time we provide you with an opportunity to drop the giant, steaming tq turd you love so much.  These forums would be funded until the return of christ.........if we could just make that one simple arrangement.

[Ravenshire]

*corrected word usage to more accurately portray what I meant in that quote.

Randy, wouldn't the church I used to attend be even better than a forum?!? Lot's of believers around, lot's of testimony for the love of christ, all that happy horse shit. Or, how 'bout the good christer home I was raised in with all the positive reinforcement (and whitewashing of the "darker" elements of the buy-bull) that entails? If my own parents couldn't convince me gawd was real, even though I wanted to believe it, what in the holy fuck makes you think some fucking christer web forum will work?

Not necessarily. With your parents and your former Church, there's probably a LOT of baggage that makes being really honest difficult.

The anonymity of the Internet might actually be helpful.

One other question: you posts don't suggest that you are dispassionately pursuing the question of God's existence. Your choice of words indicates that you are anything but objective as an honest scientist would be. For example, you can't even bring yourself to type "some Christian web forum"...no, it has to be "some fucking christer web forum". Why is that?

I've long since quit caring (or worrying) about a gawd that refuses to show itself (did you even read my post directly above your reply to me?), or more likely, simply isn't there. The evidence doesn't add up, mostly because it's not there either. No, I'm not as lenient in my criteria for evidence as you are. Evidence should be, well, evident. It should also be verifiable, testable and repeatable. None of the crap you've thrown at the wall in hopes something will stick lives up to those criteria.

The criteria you've listed for evidence sounds great for something in a test tube, but not all evidence that you accept in life meets them.

You know, I was going to do up a nice long reply, but quite honestly I'm not up to arguing semantics. The gist is, you claimed that that if we sincerely sought out gawd, it would show up. I did, it didn't, end of story.

And yes, Randy, any claim for which I require evidence (mundane claims require no proof), the evidence does meet those criteria or I don't accept the claim. Just because your standards are woefully low doesn't mean mine are.

[The Grand Nudger]

It just wouldn't matter if your standards -were- as inadequate as Randys..of course.

Randy, this is for you, you hear "thats -insert fallacy here-!" alot.....and I don't think that's informative enough for you to understand why your arguments aren't compelling.  Let me elaborate for you, while I still have the will.

If I criticize you for having low standards.....and you -demonstrate- that I have low standards........I will simply concede that I am being as pig headed and ignorant as you are.  

We're -both- shitwits, apparently.  You're still a shitwit, your shitwitted beliefs are still, themselves, shitwitted.....and the only difference between a world in which you "win" this argument and a world in which you  "lose" this argument...is that the raft you are drifting through a sea of unending shitwiitedness -in- becomes more crowded with additional passengers.  Bogged down by further, shitwitted mass.

Do you understand?

[Esquilax]

The gist is, you claimed that that if we sincerely sought out gawd, it would show up. I did, it didn't, end of story.

Oh wow, Randy's gone there, has he? Well then Randy, explain my wife: dedicated christian, prayed to god in an intensive care ward, as her organs began to fail, for either healing, or guidance, or what. She refused medical treatment to put her life in god's hands and almost died as a result; he never showed.

Sincerity unto death is probably more sincere than you've ever had to be in your search for god, and nothing came of it. What now?

[Ravenshire]

The gist is, you claimed that that if we sincerely sought out gawd, it would show up. I did, it didn't, end of story.

Oh wow, Randy's gone there, has he?

Don't most of them go there soon or late?

[Randy Carson]

It just wouldn't matter if your standards -were- as inadequate as Randys..of course.

Randy, this is for you, you hear "thats -insert fallacy here-!" alot.....and I don't think that's informative enough for you to understand why your arguments aren't compelling.  Let me elaborate for you, while I still have the will.

If I criticize you for having low standards.....and you -demonstrate- that I have low standards........I will simply concede that I am being as pig headed and ignorant as you are.  

We're -both- shitwits, apparently.  You're still a shitwit, your shitwitted beliefs are still, themselves, shitwitted.....and the only difference between a world in which you "win" this argument and a world in which you  "lose" this argument...is that the raft you are drifting through a sea of unending shitwiitedness -in- becomes more crowded with additional passengers.  Bogged down by further, shitwitted mass.

Do you understand?

Completely.

I also understand that you cannot see the evidence and proofs for Christianity and God clearly. It does exist, and you have heard it, but you have not really heard it, because if you had, you would arguing in this forum from my side of the divide.

Now, this is a puzzlement. The easy answer is to say that apart from God's grace, you cannot "see" and "hear", and that may be the only explanation that is possible. I understand that many here are former Christians...these are the seeds that fell on the path and were eaten by birds or that sprang up quickly but withered when they had no root or even some that may have been choked by weeds. I cannot say why this happened...only that Jesus spoke of it, and his words have proven to be true.

I can't explain why God does not answer every prayer when people call out to Him. He doesn't answer me very often, either. That doesn't really bother me, though...I think Billy Graham and Pope Francis have that same experience. Some folks in this forum say that God NEVER answered them. Maybe that's true...how could I say otherwise?

What I do believe is this: I am mercifully caught in the gravitational field of God, and I am in orbit around him. Whenever my tendency is to fly off into the darkness, I'm pulled back toward the light of the Son who is at the center of my orbit. As I spiral closer and closer, I look forward to the day when I disappear beyond the event horizon, lost to view by those who remain behind in this life, but suddenly present to Him and all who have gone before.

[Ravenshire]

It does exist, and you have heard it, but you have not really heard it, because if you had, you would arguing in this forum from my side of the divide.

And, if you held the same standards for evidence that we do, you'd be on this side of the divide. What you call evidence clearly is not. If it were, there would be 7-1/2 billion cathy-licks in the world.

[The Grand Nudger]

I also understand that you cannot see the evidence and proofs for Christianity and God clearly. It does exist,

Put up or shut up Randy, it's that simple..same as anything in life.  I hope you don't mind that I snipped the rest of your faith based comments.  I don't require them and they are -fundamentally unconvincing- to me.  You claim to have evidence -and- proofs, plural...no less. Get to work on that or be satisfied as a liar for christ, it's always been your call.

[Esquilax]

I also understand that you cannot see the evidence and proofs for Christianity and God clearly. It does exist, and you have heard it, but you have not really heard it, because if you had, you would arguing in this forum from my side of the divide.

Sounds to me like you have a presupposition that your arguments are inherently convincing in all cases.

Now, this is a puzzlement. The easy answer is to say that apart from God's grace, you cannot "see" and "hear", and that may be the only explanation that is possible. I understand that many here are former Christians...these are the seeds that fell on the path and were eaten by birds or that sprang up quickly but withered when they had no root or even some that may have been choked by weeds. I cannot say why this happened...only that Jesus spoke of it, and his words have proven to be true.

Yeah, because the other alternative, that "Jesus'" words were nothing but self reinforcing pablum designed to turn all resistance into failure of character, just can't be true!

[Chas]

I also understand that you cannot see the evidence and proofs for Christianity and God clearly. It does exist, and you have heard it, but you have not really heard it, because if you had, you would arguing in this forum from my side of the divide.

Now, this is a puzzlement. The easy answer is to say that apart from God's grace, you cannot "see" and "hear", and that may be the only explanation that is possible. I understand that many here are former Christians...these are the seeds that fell on the path and were eaten by birds or that sprang up quickly but withered when they had no root or even some that may have been choked by weeds. I cannot say why this happened...only that Jesus spoke of it, and his words have proven to be true.

I can't explain why God does not answer every prayer when people call out to Him. He doesn't answer me very often, either. That doesn't really bother me, though...I think Billy Graham and Pope Francis have that same experience. Some folks in this forum say that God NEVER answered them. Maybe that's true...how could I say otherwise?

What I do believe is this: I am mercifully caught in the gravitational field of God, and I am in orbit around him. Whenever my tendency is to fly off into the darkness, I'm pulled back toward the light of the Son who is at the center of my orbit. As I spiral closer and closer, I look forward to the day when I disappear beyond the event horizon, lost to view by those who remain behind in this life, but suddenly present to Him and all who have gone before.

You haven't supplied any evidence or proofs for us to consider.  Put up or shut up.