Stump the Christian?

[Esquilax]

Hey, you forgot to say that I'm a liar. That's been another part of my campaign...simply making stuff up, remember?

If I'm going to go to all that trouble, I at least want to get credit for it. "Dishonesty" is FAR too subtle for what I've done.

Sheesh.

Sarcasm isn't a rebuttal, Randy.

[Catholic_Lady]

I can attest to that. I used to be very active on the Catholic forum Randy is referring to. There are atheists on there who are extremely outspoken and don't get treated nearly as badly there as he does here.

I submit to you that "extremely outspoken" is a very different, far more innocent endeavor than the campaign of dishonesty, hypocrisy, condescension and fiat accusations made to impugn our character that Randy has been waging since it became clear his arguments weren't going to fly. We aren't talking about outspoken here, we're talking about a guy who comes into our house with the same old warmed over apologist nonsense, and who responds to our disagreement on those points by telling us what we think and that there must be something wrong with us for not immediately converting.

Totally different kettle of fish.

Well, I personally haven't seen Randy doing any of those things.

When assessing a forum poster I look for their tone and how respectfully they address people. I don't look for whether or not I agree with them or think their ideologies are hypocritical or whether I get offended by what they believe, etc. And while I did have one atheist buddy on there whom I really really loved, there were definitely a few others who were extremely rude and condescending. I said "outspoken" to put it politely because I don't want to offend any of you here.

---

I can attest to that. I used to be very active on the Catholic forum Randy is referring to. There are atheists on there who are extremely outspoken and don't get treated nearly as badly there as he does here.

 We aren't talking about outspoken here, we're talking about a guy who comes into our house with the same old warmed over apologist nonsense, and who responds to our disagreement on those points by telling us what we think and that there must be something wrong with us for not immediately converting.

My bolding.

To be fair, some of you guys here have flat out called me ignorant for not agreeing with you on the existence of God. Amongst other things.

[Ravenshire]

I submit to you that "extremely outspoken" is a very different, far more innocent endeavor than the campaign of dishonesty, hypocrisy, condescension and fiat accusations made to impugn our character that Randy has been waging since it became clear his arguments weren't going to fly. We aren't talking about outspoken here, we're talking about a guy who comes into our house with the same old warmed over apologist nonsense, and who responds to our disagreement on those points by telling us what we think and that there must be something wrong with us for not immediately converting.

Totally different kettle of fish.

Hey, you forgot to say that I'm a liar. That's been another part of my campaign...simply making stuff up, remember?

If I'm going to go to all that trouble, I at least want to get credit for it. "Dishonesty" is FAR too subtle for what I've done.

Sheesh.

I don't want to speak for Esq. but maybe he just let the obvious stuff speak for itself.

[Randy Carson]

Hey, you forgot to say that I'm a liar. That's been another part of my campaign...simply making stuff up, remember?

If I'm going to go to all that trouble, I at least want to get credit for it. "Dishonesty" is FAR too subtle for what I've done.

Sheesh.

I don't want to speak for Esq. but maybe he just let the obvious stuff speak for itself.

So, all that other stuff is less obvious? I'll have to be less subtle going forward...

[Esquilax]

Well, I personally haven't seen Randy doing any of those things.

Well, you haven't been around here very long. But there's a thread he started just a few days ago which was basically one long accusation: "The only reason you don't agree with me is because you're unfairly biased toward my ideas. Nothing you have said to me, where it doesn't agree with me, over the entire time I've been posting here, is something you legitimately believe, I dismiss it out of hand, and you're lying if you say that those arguments were the root cause of your disagreement."

Stuff like that, and the "you just hate god!" schtick that Randy's used on me before too, is some of the most profoundly rude conduct I've ever seen, because it doesn't just insult, it robs us of our voices, at least within the context of that specific conversation. It takes away even our ability to speak for ourselves, since the other party has empowered themselves to dictate our motivations and beliefs to us.

When assessing a forum poster I look for their tone and how respectfully they address people. I don't look for whether or not I agree with them or think their ideologies are hypocritical or whether I get offended by what they believe, etc. And while I did have one atheist buddy on there whom I really really loved, there were definitely a few others who were extremely rude and condescending. I said "outspoken" to put it politely because I don't want to offend any of you here.

See, here's the thing: I think we give as good as we get, generally speaking. It varies from person to person, obviously, but if you look back through the forum history, you'll see that we don't usually start out belligerent; there are christian members here who've fit in really well. We often get accused of just hating christians, and as a mod especially of being biased against the religious membership here, but when that comes up I can just point to Jacob, who came here as a christian and was just really cool about it, had a sense of humor, and as a result never got a hard time at all (except from Min, but nobody can stop Min ). Hell, we've even had theistic admins on board in the past; an objective look at the entirety of the board, rather than its current state, shows an extremely different picture than looking at a single christian who has, let's face it, said some pretty disrespectful things himself.

Randy got a hard time. Theists don't as a rule.

My bolding.

To be fair, some of you guys here have flat out called me ignorant for not agreeing with you on the existence of God. Amongst other things.

So? Ignorant isn't an insult: everyone is ignorant about some things. It's not some binding evaluation of your entire character, at least, that's not the way I'd take that, though it's hard to gauge without context.

[Catholic_Lady]

My bolding.

To be fair, some of you guys here have flat out called me ignorant for not agreeing with you on the existence of God. Amongst other things.

So? Ignorant isn't an insult: everyone is ignorant about some things. It's not some binding evaluation of your entire character, at least, that's not the way I'd take that, though it's hard to gauge without context.

I have not been called ignorant for not knowing what a certain word meant, or for never having heard about a particular event that took places, etc. I have been called ignorant simply for disagreeing on the existence of God.

I'm just saying this because you're accusing Randy of talking to you in absolutes regarding beliefs as if you're wrong, and being condecending... I don't see how that's different than what some people here have done to me, yet they don't get called out for it.

I'm not complaining about this on my behalf or anything. Just pointing out the double standards.

[Esquilax]

I'm just saying this because you're accusing Randy of talking to you in absolutes regarding beliefs as if you're wrong, and being condecending... I don't see how that's different than what some people here have done to me, yet they don't get called out for it.  

You don't see an appreciable difference between your experience, where someone disagrees with you and calls you ignorant for that-and frankly, I really do think there's probably more to it than that- and mine, where someone disagrees with me and then tells me straight out that I don't disagree for the reasons I've stated, nor for any legitimate reason, but really just because I hate his god?

[The Grand Nudger]

Rhythm, you think you have all the answers.

You mean you -say- that I think I have all the answers.  I wasn't aware that you were also, in addition to being a dirtbag apologist....a psychic.  Hallelujah?

You know God does not exist (or at least you're pretty sure he doesn't).

see above.  

I think you're all talk. Easy to do when you've got backup from every other member of the forum.

It's a discussion forum, all you know of me are my words, and that's all you could know of me.   So....saying..on a discussion board, that I'm "all talk" is probably about the most lucid response I've seen from you yet...even if it doesn;t really sting the way you intended.

So, why don't YOU put up or shut up? Why don't you man up and spend as much time in a Catholic forum as I have invested here?

I don't have your evangelical urges...nor do I think that my participation is required for people to leave your faith? The churches are getting shuttered, Randy, I don't have to lift a finger. You're here recruiting because there's a sense of urgency for you that simply doesn't exist for me.

Think you've got the chops to put in 6-8 hours a day in that setting like I do here sometimes? Prove it.

Let me know. I'll be there.

The only one looking to prove anything here seems to be you, and the only thing you seem to be working very hard at proving...is that you're a frothing moron.

And you will be treated much better there than I have been received here, I promise you that.

Before or -after- I call them poor excuses for human beings, as I repeatedly find occasion to remind you?  As shown over and over in this thread and others, you are just the sort of simpleton who never stopped to think....before you opened your mouth...that I do participate on other boards...that I am the same person there as I am here..and that, as is to be expected......I don't get treated very well where my comments simply aren't welcome. It's just who you are. You have a positive -need- to impose your fantasies about me, upon me, and in our conversations.



And all of that, up above..... because you didn't actually have the evidence -or- proof you've repeatedly claimed to possess, liar.

[Catholic_Lady]

I'm just saying this because you're accusing Randy of talking to you in absolutes regarding beliefs as if you're wrong, and being condecending... I don't see how that's different than what some people here have done to me, yet they don't get called out for it.  

You don't see an appreciable difference between your experience, where someone disagrees with you and calls you ignorant for that-and frankly, I really do think there's probably more to it than that- and mine, where someone disagrees with me and then tells me straight out that I don't disagree for the reasons I've stated, nor for any legitimate reason, but really just because I hate his god?

I have been accused of being disingenuous. Of not actually believing what I say I believe, or of pretending to my self that I believe something when I really believe differently.

It's whatever. Water under the bridge. Just saying there is plenty of that attitude to go around here from your side as well. At least Randy doesn't use profane, nasty language when he does it.

[The Grand Nudger]

Good god, CL, you're working through the apologist flow chart like a pro......Randy has called us spiritually diseased (while likening us to chickens)....that's pretty nasty, don't you think?