Hello everyone!!

[CoxRox]

Hi Daystar, if you get a minute I'd be interested to see your 'proofs' that Jesus isn't God, if you'd care to PM me them. Thanks....

Sorry Psalm23, I've not said hello. I've been reading your threads. Welcome....

[leo-rcc]

You are confusing atheism with anti-theism. I am not turning against anything, I just don't believe such a thing as a god exists. Certainly not the biblical one.

anti-theism? Hmmm.. maybe you're right. However, you say, "Not the Biblical one," that is an unsure statement.

Hey if a god or gods do exist, proving it would convince me. However of all the gods ever described anywhere, the biblical one is the most unlikely to me.

Trust me, I would love to prove God exists to you... Just as much as you would love to disprove God.

I thank you not to presume what I would like to do. I dare you to find a single message on any board trying me to convince anyone of the non-existence of a god. I am not into that, never have.

I certainly wouldn't call Pacal's wager a judgement. It's more like a concern.

I call it a threat.

And I do not believe for a second moral laws are passed on from any deity. Morality is in everyone of us that wants to partake into a society, no god is needed for that.

I'm not so sure. If you can provide evidence of ancient scripture with the same moral laws, then I would love to see them.

Whether it is written down somewhere is not the issue. Can you show how any of the moral laws couldn't have been conceived in a non-theological society? Can you show me one of those laws couldn't possibly be thought of by common reasoning?

Just because it is in some old text doesn't prove any divine intervention dictating it.

[Psalm 23]

Sorry Psalm23, I've not said hello. I've been reading your threads. Welcome....

It's ok, I know forum boards can be hectic at times. I should know. I try to respond to five different people at once.

Thanks for the welcome.

---

Hey if a god or gods do exist, proving it would convince me. However of all the gods ever described anywhere, the biblical one is the most unlikely to me.

Proving God is just as impossible as disproving him. This is where faith is supposed to kick in.

I thank you not to presume what I would like to do. I dare you to find a single message on any board trying me to convince anyone of the non-existence of a god. I am not into that, never have.

Sorry for the assumption. Alot of atheist forum boards claim they have disproven God. All I can do is sit back and wonder why their mind came to that conclusion. Because it's a proven fact that God cannot be disproved.

I call it a threat.

Pascal's wager is simple. He claimed "If the Christian God exists, I win. If the Christian God doesn't exist, I win." There is no judgement casted upon atheists.

Whether it is written down somewhere is not the issue. Can you show how any of the moral laws couldn't have been conceived in a non-theological society? Can you show me one of those laws couldn't possibly be thought of by common reasoning?

Well, take for example, "Thou shalt not murder!" Was that a moral law of society before it was etched in stone tablets? Or what about "Do not commit adultery!" Was it acceptable by society to cheat on your spouse?

Just because it is in some old text doesn't prove any divine intervention dictating it.

I never claimed to have proof that the LORD actually spoke to Moses, and commanded him to write down these Laws. I think we should respect those laws as moral guidelines on the human race.

Why do you think Federal Government Judges, and Supreme Court Justices still have the 10 Commandments in their Courtroom? They believe it's a standard to all moral and decent laws addressed to mankind.

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Hello, and welcome, Psalm 23. I can't speak for anyone else but from my observations atheist abandon the idea of a Creator God as well as worship of any gods due to the simple fact that they don't buy into it. They have a great deal of reason for doing so. They tend to be science minded and political with a strong social conscience and apostate religion seem to be opposed to those things. Ultimately, I think, it is really all about the gross misrepresentation of God by religious maddness from the past that has literally pushed God out of the minds of most people both Xian and Atheist.

First off, I would like to start by saying there is a reason why Scientists are more towards no belief in God. The reason is they don't have to work with life or death situations. The latest survey shows that 76% of U.S Medical Experts believe in God, and 55% believe in the afterlife. Scientists are becoming more understood on "how" everything began, but they cannot come to the conclusion on "why" everything began. Sure, Science can say, "here, this is how the Universe began 14 billion years ago," but can they prove a higher creator didn't make it possible? The answer is simple. No, they can't.

I don't know about the author of The God Delission not being able to prove Jesus wasn't God but I can.

I watched an episode of O'Reilly Factor on FOX News, and Bill O'Reilly had a guest on his show, and he is the author of the Book called, "The God Delusion." Bill O'Reilly came right out and told Professor Richard Dawkins, "You cannot prove to me that Jesus Christ wasn't God." And Mr. Dawkins agreed with him. However, Mr Dawkins told O'Reilly, "You can't prove that Thor or Zeus were not gods either."

I would love to see how you have come to the conclusion that Jesus Christ was not God.

Anyway, welcome and I hope we can have some good discussions, but I tend to shy away from discussions that come from a sort of religious defense. I got tired of debating Xian dogma ages ago. I prefer to concentrate on the Bible.

Thanks for the welcome.. and I assure you, I only get defensive to those who offend me or my religion.

[leo-rcc]

Whether it is written down somewhere is not the issue. Can you show how any of the moral laws couldn't have been conceived in a non-theological society? Can you show me one of those laws couldn't possibly be thought of by common reasoning?

Well, take for example, "Thou shalt not murder!" Was that a moral law of society before it was etched in stone tablets?

Yes, in far more societies where they never heard of your tablets murder was and is immoral.

Or what about "Do not commit adultery!" Was it acceptable by society to cheat on your spouse?

Taking the wife of someone else is also considered immoral in different societies, including those that are not monotheistic.

You seem to assume that previous to the dead sea scrolls everyone was just lusting and murdering around, do you honestly think that?

Just because it is in some old text doesn't prove any divine intervention dictating it.

I never claimed to have proof that the LORD actually spoke to Moses, and commanded him to write down these Laws. I think we should respect those laws as moral guidelines on the human race.

I see nothing in the 10 commandments that are not "Well Duh!" laws.

I don't want my stuff stolen. My neighbor doesn't either. We as a group determine that stealing is wrong and we will punish anyone in our group that does steal from us. I don't need a stone tablet for that.

Why do you think Federal Government Judges, and Supreme Court Justices still have the 10 Commandments in their Courtroom? They believe it's a standard to all moral and decent laws addressed to mankind.

And what about Japanese judges? Or Indonesian? Or are their laws less than your scripture?

[Ace Otana]

I don't think "Lack of evidence" is such a solid argument. I mean, has Science created a machine that can explore the entire Universe simultaneously? If not, then how are you 100% sure God is not among us? The answer is simple. You can't. Lack of Evidence only works if you have explored every single option. Since that cannot be completed. You are living a dangerous risk.

Well your making the claim. The burden of proof is on your shoulders. I cannot be 100% sure there is no god, just as you can't be 100% sure there is. I don't see it as a risk. Because I don't believe in such a place.

Now I go by evidence, not superstitions. So if you make a claim, it is expected for you to back it up. Now since there is no evidence, I dismiss these claims as false.

For all we know, reality is that when we die that will be the total end for us. We will just vanish into non-existence. I'm happy with that prospect.

It's more likely for reality to be like that than your hell or heaven. Since nothing says it's even remotely true.

So there is no risk. Even if there was, I'd still live life like I've always had. Even if your god was real and you've proven him. I'd still never worship him.

That's because I want nothing to do with religion....AT ALL!

So god or not. I will not worship, I will not go to chruch or anything of the sort. In fact I consider these beliefs as childrens fairytales. I feel to old to get involved with it really.

[lukec]

Psalm- about the ten commandments- if you are going to accept that particular part of the Old Testament as a reasonable guide for your moral compass, or for federal laws, do you accept the rest of the Old Testament "rules"?

[Tiberius]

Well, I guess the same question that was asked to Richard Dawkins, "What if you're wrong?" It would be the same as, "Why take a risk?" So, let me rephrase that. "What if the Jewish God does exist?" Wouldn't that be the same as "why take a risk?"

As a Christian, I do not threaten people with Hell. Believers or Non-Believers. I'm not the judge of mankind.

I think Pascal's wager makes perfectly good sense."If I'm wrong I win, If your wrong, you will know about it forever, and ever!!"

Pascal's wager and similar arguments all fail on several levels. They do not consider other heavens / hells / gods (so whilst you win on one occasion, you lose every other time). It also depends on you being able to choose to believe, which many consider to be impossible. I certainly wouldn't be able to force myself to believe in a God simply because a wager says I should. In other words, the only way for the wager to have any affect would be for the God to respect people who say they believe but really don't. That doesn't seem to be the kind of deity I would even want to worship.

At the end of it all, there are exactly the same number of repercussions for theists in regards to other gods as there are for atheists.

Ha! Not to sound rude or ignorant towards you, but how can you blasphemy something, or someone that doesn't exist?

Blasphemy is using insulting language about gods. You don't have to believe in gods to do that...

[CoxRox]

Ace, I don't think we've been acquainted yet.....

You said: 'For all we know, reality is that when we die that will be the total end for us. We will just vanish into non-existence. I'm happy with that prospect.'

Are you really happy with that prospect??

[Tiberius]

Ace, I don't think we've been acquainted yet.....

You said: 'For all we know, reality is that when we die that will be the total end for us. We will just vanish into non-existence. I'm happy with that prospect.'

Are you really happy with that prospect??

I'm happy. I think the concept of eternal life, whilst at first is incredibly tempting, would probably end up being ever so boring after the first few thousand years. Doctors say there are five stages of accepting death: Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, and Acceptance.

Atheists are at stage 5, most theists are at stage 1. We accept the finality of death; theists are in denial about it.

[CoxRox]

I've accepted we will die and be no longer in existence. That is a fact. Am I happy that my life will be 'interrupted' just when I might be seeing my great grandchildren being born and my runner beans are blossoming beautifully? Don't blame me for wanting one more day, and then when that day is over I'll want another.......