Some questions about heaven and hell (for any believer)

[vorlon13]

---> What the hell happens to fetuses and non-baptised children?


Scripture is clear in regard to fetuses at least, the immortal soul is inspirated at the first breath following birth. So a fetus that dies in utero is the equivalent of finger nail clippings or hair since it is unensouled.

Curiously the anti-abortion crowd isn't concerned about beauty parlors treating clipped curls with a little a little more respect, the hair being the equivalent of fetuses, but for some reason they don't . . .

[Won2blv]

Thanks for your answer Tonus, some things JW's think are fascinating - Do you think believing you cease to exist if you don't earn the ticket to paradise is considered more frightening/effective to persuade believers than eternal torture?

I just want to add something from a still active JW... its easy to be cynical and reason that everything is done for personal gain. Including what and why religions teach. But JW's often get reminded that having a good standing with God is more important than any reward we may receive. So thats also why we don't just let people get baptized willy nilly.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

I'll do my best to answer these as I would when I was a JW.

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If all sins can be repented and consequently forgiven by god, why does hell need to be eternal and not temporal? Depending on the severity of the sin, you could be tortured for a day, a week, a month, but why all eternity?

JWs believe that hell is just the grave, and not a place of torment.  They believe that when we die we cease to exist.  Thus this question doesn't apply.

If no sin can be repented fully, does that mean we all risk going to hell?

God recognizes our fallen condition and takes this into account when judging us worthy of salvation or not.  Sincerity (after works of faith) is of utmost import to him.

If only some sins can be repented, how do we know which ones can and cannot?

The Bible describes only one sin that cannot be forgiven, which is blaspheming against the holy spirit.  Once you do that, you might as well party like it's 1999, because your ticket to paradise has been officially canceled.

Why does every sin worthy of hell always grant eternal torture? Should someone who commits an unforgivable sin start endlessly sinning (since he/she is going to hell anyway)?

See above regarding both questions.

Are Hitler and other immoral people who had faith in god enjoying paradise?

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Assuming Hitler was sincere, his works were immoral and unChristian in the extreme.  I would expect that he has no future at all.

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Are people who contributed to mankind, like scientists and artists, burning in hell because they didn't believe and committed some sins (like drug abuse)? If so, why does god punish those who help the earth?

Not burning in hell, see above.  God punishes those who choose not to serve him, not with hell, but with the loss of eternal paradise.

If I never believed while I'm alive but repent and confess to a priest on my deathbed, can I get into heaven?

Only god can determine how sincere a person's conversion is.  If the intent is to seek a loophole, he'll know.  My guess?  No paradise for you!

The former begs a more important question - Is simply believing in the divinity of Jesus and his resurrection (using Christianity just as an example) enough to get into Heaven, regardless of what I do?

No.  Faith without works is dead.  You prove the sincerity of your belief by the way you behave.

Can I be really evil but still go to heaven if I believe and pray?

Nope.  See above.

What is more important for getting into heaven - Good deeds according to the doctrine, or prayer?

Out of the two, good deeds.  Righteous action always trumps prayer/ceremony in his eyes.

Is being gay by itself enough to grant you a ticket to hell? What about premarital sex or simply having sexual thoughts about the neighbour's wife?

In the case of such things, only the action matters.  "Being" gay is not a sin, but gay sex is.
(Note: this is in direct contradiction of Jesus words in his Sermon on the Mount, in which lusting after a woman was as bad as adultery.  I never heard the JW leadership clarify this to mean that impure thoughts were sufficient to damn a person.)

If you commit a sin while a the same time doing a good deed, which matters more? For example, if I hurt someone to make them believe (saving his/her soul to get into heaven) does the good of converting the person surpass the evil of hurting/torturing them?

There are situations where god may allow this, though only god knows his own mind.  For example, lying to save a person from an unjust end could be justified in god's eyes.  Or taking violent action to subdue a person who is about to hurt innocents, though that can get pretty murky.

Does god know (and distinguish?) between those who genuinely believe in him and his doctrine passed down to mankind and those who just pretend/wish to believe just to enter the kingdom of paradise?

Yes.  God knows our hearts, our intentions and our sincerity in anything we do.

To enter heaven, do important good deeds count more than small good deeds? Quantity or quality? Does god balance [mathematically] the amount of good and bad deeds (including thoughts) and determine if the overall score is positive or negative?

I think the only answer to this is that god expects us to do all we can to reach paradise.  Quibbling over which would be more efficient might blind us from simply doing our best.  As above, god knows if you're making a good-faith effort or if you think you can "solve" salvation through weighted ratios.

If god really values the institution of family, why doesn't he mind separating relatives between hell and heaven?

God values your relationship with him above any other.  If you have to choose between him and family and you choose family, he will similarly reject you.

What the hell happens to fetuses and non-baptised children?

Not really sure.  Children may be resurrected in the paradise and given the option to know god and serve him or reject him.  Fetuses... no clue honestly.

What happens to pre-Christian Humans (or pre-any religion)?

Those who did not have the opportunity to learn the truth and make an informed decision are resurrected in paradise and given the same option as children.

Isn't eternal torture a strong contradiction against god's strong love and devotion for his own creation (us)?

Yes.

If Satan is evil, why does his house seem to have some of the coolest people on earth?

That's what he wants you to think.  But all of his paths lead to sorrow and ruin.

Finally - Do you believe if everyone goes to hell god will get bored?

God cannot "get bored."  He's so interesting that he even impresses himself.  ALL OF THE DAMNED TIME.

How the fuck do you know that?

God uses the holy spirit to communicate with his 'faithful and discreet slave' (the JW leadership) and they pass this wisdom onto the world.  Except when they don't, because they're fallible men.  But you can trust what they tell you.  Most of the time.  But they really are god's conduit on earth.  Dammit, stop rolling your eyes!

If you believe there's nothing you can do to deserve god's grace, then why beat yourself up?

You don't try to earn god's grace, you simply are expressing your gratitude that he makes it available to all.

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When Jesus returns he's going to destroy the Earth and kill all life and throw countless billions of people into the lake of fire.  Based on that Hitler comes off a billion times better than Jesus.

[Minimalist]

Romans Road lays out the plan of salvation through a series of Bible verses from the book of Romans.

Oh, whoop-de-fucking-doo.

Let's explain bullshit with an even bigger pile of bullshit.  The catholic church's routine throughout history.

They jerk off with one hand and stick the other out for money!

[Won2blv]

I'll do my best to answer these as I would when I was a JW.

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JWs believe that hell is just the grave, and not a place of torment.  They believe that when we die we cease to exist.  Thus this question doesn't apply.
God recognizes our fallen condition and takes this into account when judging us worthy of salvation or not.  Sincerity (after works of faith) is of utmost import to him.
The Bible describes only one sin that cannot be forgiven, which is blaspheming against the holy spirit.  Once you do that, you might as well party like it's 1999, because your ticket to paradise has been officially canceled.
See above regarding both questions.
Assuming Hitler was sincere, his works were immoral and unChristian in the extreme.  I would expect that he has no future at all.[hide]
Not burning in hell, see above.  God punishes those who choose not to serve him, not with hell, but with the loss of eternal paradise.
Only god can determine how sincere a person's conversion is.  If the intent is to seek a loophole, he'll know.  My guess?  No paradise for you!
No.  Faith without works is dead.  You prove the sincerity of your belief by the way you behave.
Nope.  See above.
Out of the two, good deeds.  Righteous action always trumps prayer/ceremony in his eyes.
In the case of such things, only the action matters.  "Being" gay is not a sin, but gay sex is.
(Note: this is in direct contradiction of Jesus words in his Sermon on the Mount, in which lusting after a woman was as bad as adultery.  I never heard the JW leadership clarify this to mean that impure thoughts were sufficient to damn a person.)
There are situations where god may allow this, though only god knows his own mind.  For example, lying to save a person from an unjust end could be justified in god's eyes.  Or taking violent action to subdue a person who is about to hurt innocents, though that can get pretty murky.
Yes.  God knows our hearts, our intentions and our sincerity in anything we do.
I think the only answer to this is that god expects us to do all we can to reach paradise.  Quibbling over which would be more efficient might blind us from simply doing our best.  As above, god knows if you're making a good-faith effort or if you think you can "solve" salvation through weighted ratios.
God values your relationship with him above any other.  If you have to choose between him and family and you choose family, he will similarly reject you.
Not really sure.  Children may be resurrected in the paradise and given the option to know god and serve him or reject him.  Fetuses... no clue honestly.
Those who did not have the opportunity to learn the truth and make an informed decision are resurrected in paradise and given the same option as children.
Yes.
That's what he wants you to think.  But all of his paths lead to sorrow and ruin.
God cannot "get bored."  He's so interesting that he even impresses himself.  ALL OF THE DAMNED TIME.

God uses the holy spirit to communicate with his 'faithful and discreet slave' (the JW leadership) and they pass this wisdom onto the world.  Except when they don't, because they're fallible men.  But you can trust what they tell you.  Most of the time.  But they really are god's conduit on earth.  Dammit, stop rolling your eyes!

You don't try to earn god's grace, you simply are expressing your gratitude that he makes it available to all.

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When Jesus returns he's going to destroy the Earth and kill all life and throw countless billions of people into the lake of fire.  Based on that Hitler comes off a billion times better than Jesus.

JW's don't believe the earth will be destroyed. And they only believe that evil ones will be cut off. There won't be a distinction based purely on race. I would say that just that one difference makes Hitler the worse person still

[StealthySkeptic]

In my view when I was a Catholic, only the really bad people (like Hitler) went to hell, while all nice people went to heaven. Then unlike many of my fellow Catholics I actually READ the Bible, and had anxiety for years that the slightest impure thought meant eternal damnation.

In reality, this whole "free grace" thing is like a Kickstarter that never has a definitive release date. You keep putting in faith and good works in the hope that maybe some day after said release date you finally get the backer rewards. I'd rather opt out because, as an anonymous ancient philosopher (not Marcus Aurelius like so many people think) said,

"Live a good life. If there are Gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are Gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no Gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."

[robvalue]

I like that quote

I'd add that unjust gods can't be relied upon to stick to their word either. So doing what they say is no guarantee of getting what they promise.