Why fight ISIS?

[Minimalist]

We need to stop pretending that Iraq is a viable political entity.  It isn't.  Admit we fucked up, recognize Kurdistan as an independent country, arm them so they can defend themselves and let the rest of the dessicated corpse of Iraq be split up between the Sunnis and Shia who can then kill each other for the next two centuries for all I fucking care.

[Saxmoof]

America's self perceived interest in the region is to maintain balance of power between states and religious sects so everybody's attentions and Machiavellian energies are primarily focused on smiling and backstabbing each other,  with as little energy and attention as possible being free to divert in our direction, or the direction of Israel.   American would further like this balance of power to be so arranged that is it is unstable by itself and can only be made somewhat stable with considerable American participation.   This way at least some party would be beholden to the U.S. and willing to do our bidding.


We have no interest in letting anyone grow so big that their have spare energy and resource to pursue independent foreign policy objectives besides just barely keeping up with their neighbors, which given how much of an unwanted outsider we and Israel happen to be, would be to direct against us or Israel in one way or another.   We also have no interest in the U.S. not being placed to meddle in the region when we like however we like, even if our departure does really promise peace, stability and prosperity.

Ah, so we can't stop meddling now because everyone hates us for all the meddling we've done... that actually does make sense somehow, even if it is bizarre that we've ended up in this situation

[Anomalocaris]

The reason we want to Be able to freely meddle is not because everyone there hates us, although they do hate us.   The reason is having a presence in the middleeast and southwest Asia gives us the option to:

1. Ferment instability of one kind or another to indirectly threaten any secure interiors line of communication between China, India, Russia and Europe.

2. Dictate actions to client states to threaten any secure interiors line of communication between China, India, Russia and Europe by proxy

3. Directly threaten any secure interiors line of communication between China, India, Russia and Europe by our own forces.

Incidentally, lack of prospect for a secure interior line of communities along the length of Euroasia means the most vital trades on the euroasian continent will be forced to stay on the exterior sea lanes.   We have more than half of the world's total naval power, and so long as euroasian needs sea lanes to carry out its own internal vital trades, America will securely retain a dominating voice in all of euroasia continent.   Asia and Europe together represent 65-70% of the world's economy and productive potential.   Having a dominant say in their business means we stay the sole superpower.

At the end of WWII, American economy represented 60% of the world's productive potential.   Everyone who had any sense had to come to us.   So we are the superpower by default.    

Now American economy represent barely 20% of the world's economy.  Europe and East Asia each has larger economy and productive potential than the U.S.   If Europe and east Asia were to stitch together some kind of close trade partnership with the ability to conduct most vital trade securely on interior route, America will gradually be maginalized.    We will eventually be relegated to third for forth place, and possibly be a distinct odd man out.   We don't want that.    In fact east Asia potentially has several times our potential all by itself.  That's why we are pivoting to the pacific now, in the hope of forestalling east Asia from attaining anything like its full potential.

That's why we will not give up either fermenting trouble in the Middle East, or having our troops and forces directly stationed there.    That's also why we are trying to set up a system of economic treaties in the pacific that excludes china, while China is still not too large.   We want to avoid the fate of Britain.

Think of it this way, when a country has only 20% of the world's economic and productive power, and still declining, but dominating influence in world events, it can't keep that dominating influence without making sure the other 80% remain fragmented and have less common interests with each other than with the U.S.
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[Secular Elf]

You mean, like Syria and Iraq?

There must be a stable country in the area that's capable of fighting them and in more immediate danger from them than we are, what about Iran? I'm not saying no-one should fight them, I just don't see how we can improve the situation

And if you want to fully destroy them and make sure they don't come back then surely at some point we have to send in ground troops and then stay there indefinitely, that's hardly a good solution

I see little hope of defeating these barbarians so long as the current policy of the Obama Administration in conducting this war continues. Air strikes alone is not enough. The "coalition" needs to step up more and the leadership of Iraq needs to get its act together, and the Syrian civil war, well, that is another thorny problem. I say it before and I will say it again. I am not a pacifist. Sometimes wars are necessary, though it is heartbreaking to see so many people get killed, especially innocents. But I weep not for any ISIS mother fucker who takes a bullet. If any president says he/she will "defeat and destroy" ISIS then MEAN IT AND DO IT!! Take politics out of it and let the generals handle it. Speaking only for myself, I support putting U.S. infantry as a spearhead alongside Arab forces. Get in there, mean business, and it is not over until the last ISIS fighter has a bullet in his head. Those ISIS fighters returning to their countries should be summarily arrested, tried for treason, then executed. These assholes actually believe, much like their Dominionist Christian counterparts, that they will usher in the Apocalypse. Unless we do that, expect the mess to continue, and ISIS to move forward with their plans, and more innocents murdered, ethnicities made extinct, and more world heritage archaeological sites destroyed.

I have no hope that there is an end to the disease called ISIS.

[The Grand Nudger]

The difficulty, relatively speaking..is not in crushing ISIS, it is in crushing ISIS with our interests and reputation (such as it is) intact, or at least existent. In any case, you'd never get them all...I I don't think that the our armed forces (or our government) can actually handle such a broad based extradition plan. Treason to whom?

[Minimalist]

Speaking only for myself, I support putting U.S. infantry as a spearhead alongside Arab forces.

You do remember what happened when Iraq asked for American air support in the battle for Tikrit, right?

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2015/03/26/26...hdraw.html

Iraqi Shiite Muslim militias, angry that the government of Prime Minister Haider al Abadi has asked for American help in ejecting Islamic State fighters from the central Iraqi city of Tikrit, began Thursday withdrawing their forces from the battle, the first major break between the Iranian-trained militias and Iraq’s military establishment since the Islamic State advance last year.

These things are not always about us.