Views on the Death Penalty? (a poll)

[Ashground]

Against. I think the best protection for society from the worst of the worst is separation (Life without parole). If someone is safely contained then surely there is no reason to kill them? I don't think killing dangerous people is always wrong but only when they pose an immediate danger.
My personal belief is that killing someone - anyone - in cold blood is always immoral.

Also, I don't comprehend why the US is so pro-capital punishment (by western standards). I would have thought that people who think they need a personal armory to defend themselves from their own government would be against that government having the power to separate them from their arms, confine them and then strap them to a chair and kill them. I will never understand Americans.

[Catholic_Lady]

I think those who are voting against and then saying "except for in such and such cases", should vote for.

The poll doesn't specify in how many cases or in what particular cases. If you think it should be used in any case at all, vote for. :p

You only get to ask the question.  You don't get to answer it, too.

Already did. Answered against.

Though I haven't folllowed the rules of my own thread and posted my reasons yet lol.

[The Valkyrie]

It's quite a bit different.  Soldiers don't have each other peacibly incarcerated and sitting in trial amidst the trappings of civilization and society before a jury of their peers removed from their opportunity to victimize and potentially in that state until their deaths.  We don't -have- to execute inmates.....soldiers -do- have to kill or be killed, if they value their lives.  I understand where you're coming from nevertheless.  You're okay with asking the state to kill someone, though, or with granting the state the power to execute it's citizens?

Sounds weird coming from someone who has taken the Hippocratic oath, I know, but I believe that some individuals, under some circumstances, need to be removed from society on a permanent basis and incarceration doesn't cut it.

Again, these are extreme circumstances and my criteria are VERY strict.

But, in those circumstances I have no problem with accepting the state's choice to remove that individual for the protection of the greater community.

Guarantee me 100% that said individuals will remain incarcerated, away from others for the rest of their natural lives and I'm happy to concede defeat.

[Jenny A]

Against, mainly because we can't absolutely determine guilt or innocence, and we are biased towards finding the middle class white person innocent and the poor ethnic person guilty. If we had a way of absolutely determining guilt or innocence, I'd be in favor in the case of serial killers and people who torture their victims (often the same people).

[Pyrrho]

...

Also, I don't comprehend why the US is so pro-capital punishment (by western standards). I would have thought that people who think they need a personal armory to defend themselves from their own government would be against that government having the power to separate them from their arms, confine them and then strap them to a chair and kill them. I will never understand Americans.

That seems a strange thing to say, coming from someone who started a thread about the joys of hatred:

Hatred: Too good to give up?

Also, you there state of hatred that "Such emotions are barely affected by reason."  So when Americans hate, why would you expect them to be different from others and somehow be rational in their hatred?  That almost makes me think you are ready for the following, but I suspect it is a momentary aberration and you are probably not ready for American thinking.


You will never understand Americans because you have not had the benefit of a superpower education.  You see, foreigners like you are often limited in your thinking, and believe that consistency and reason and logic are somehow necessary.  But here, we are taught differently, and have a greater appreciation for other options.  Here in America, we at one time had government subsidies paying farmers to grow tobacco, while at the same time spending massive amounts of money advertising to tell people not to smoke.  That is the way we do things.  We don't expect you to understand our ways, as we know you did not have the benefit of a superpower education, and you lack our creative thinking, and require simple systems for you to be able to comprehend them, involving consistency and other such things that are irrelevant to us, with our superior thinking and understanding.  That also explains why so many of us believe in god and take the writings of primitive, barbaric, superstitious people seriously, which one can tell from the reverence so many of us have for the Bible, and, of course, many of us read horoscopes and other such things.  Think about that when you remember all of our nuclear weapons, and the fact that we are the only country to ever actually use such weapons in war.  Many of us are quite ready to use them again, and the weapons are much more numerous and more powerful than when we used them previously.  Indeed, it will be the greatest waste of money in the history of the world if we do not use them.  It is my understanding that several of the current crop of presidential candidates are well-steeped in such ideas as I have presented in this post, and so we may soon see the fruition of our extensive preparations.  Sweet dreams!

[c172]

I am pro-death penalty, both for murder or for rape, but never mandatory. And I actually voted for CA to revoke its death penalty, since our death row, up in Marin County, is way overfull, and we barely ever execute anyone.

I am not for all these fancy schmancy modes of death that are supposed to be quicker than whatever it replaces. I would only allow gunshot to the back of the head if I were dictator of the USA. Quick. Cheap. Still scary.

I don't believe the DP to be a deterrent, but nor do I feel that way about LWOP. They are both punishments. And prisons aren't enough of a punishment (buying reese's pb cups from a commissary? I wish I could go out and get some right now!).

Do something about jury selection. Do something about corruption in the law(!). But some (fairly few) folks need to leave society.

[rexbeccarox]

It's at least four per cent in the US.  WAY too many innocent people faced the DP.  I'm against it 100% unless a convict asks for it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_e...ted_States

I disagree with the last part because it should be the system deciding the penalty, not the other way around. It's like someone saying "hey I don't want 25 years in jail, I want it for life" - It's not up to individual people to decide their own punishment, you get what the states decides because it's supposedly the most appropriate destiny.

I don't think of the DP as punishment, as it were, and I don't think the justice system should *necessarily* be about punishment.  Much like the argument we had a few days ago, I think people have a right to their own bodily autonomy, and if someone is facing his or her entire life in prison, they should have the right to die. Probably another agree/disagree for us, Dys. I think we both have the best of intentions, though.

[paulpablo]

I am pro-death penalty, both for murder or for rape, but never mandatory. And I actually voted for CA to revoke its death penalty, since our death row, up in Marin County, is way overfull, and we barely ever execute anyone.

I am not for all these fancy schmancy modes of death that are supposed to be quicker than whatever it replaces. I would only allow gunshot to the back of the head if I were dictator of the USA. Quick. Cheap. Still scary.

I don't believe the DP to be a deterrent, but nor do I feel that way about LWOP. They are both punishments. And prisons aren't enough of a punishment (buying reese's pb cups from a commissary? I wish I could go out and get some right now!).

Do something about jury selection. Do something about corruption in the law(!). But some (fairly few) folks need to leave society.

I think rape is an awful crime but definitely not one that should be punishable by death.  Just because I tend to think rape is a crime that people get falsely accused of quite often, it's difficult to prove or disprove in some cases, and a lot of the cases involve a lot of emotions which can result in rash decisions.

As for the main question of the thread though it's very difficult.  I know for certain I believe some people deserve death, but the law and courts are run by humans and somewhere along the line someone is almost definitely going to get wrongly put to death if you have a death penalty in place.  I'm sitting on the fence on this topic.

[Ashground]

That seems a strange thing to say, coming from someone who started a thread about the joys of hatred:

Hatred: Too good to give up?

Also, you there state of hatred that "Such emotions are barely affected by reason."  So when Americans hate, why would you expect them to be different from others and somehow be rational in their hatred?  That almost makes me think you are ready for the following, but I suspect it is a momentary aberration and you are probably not ready for American thinking.

Actually I was saying that avoiding hatred isn't possible and the best thing you can do is acknowledge that what you're feeling is probably very disproportionate. (But yes I did say it could be enjoyable)

I don't think hatred should have anything to do with justice.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Against. Rhythm's point about finality is big in my own thinking --  but also, there are issues of economics, and also the fact that dead people have no regrets. I think the criminal should learn to regret his crime in prison.

I also think we should put them on an island with some building materials and some seed.  Let them support themselves in a place they cannot inflict their evils onto society at large.