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RE: Does human life have INHERENT value?
June 21, 2015 at 6:38 pm
(This post was last modified: June 21, 2015 at 6:55 pm by Anomalocaris.)
(June 21, 2015 at 4:08 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Do you, as atheists, believe that human life has inherent value? (this means human life has value, in and of itself, unconditionally)
Definition of inherent (as per webster):
a permanent and inseparable element, quality, or attribute
If so, why do you believe this and how did you come to that conclusion?
(PS - No agenda here, just honestly curious about what you think and why you think it. If you do not want to hear my opinions, don't ask. I promise not to talk about them otherwise.)
No. Nothing is unconditional. If you find yourself on a desert island with no water, you can scream to the sand, or to your God, about the inherent value of your life, and you would find that no one, nothing will give you anything whatsoever for the entire value you think your life inherently has.
The value of your life is only what others graciously grant you, or you are able to convince others it has. If there is no one to grace your life with value, or you are unable to convince others of the value of your life, any value you imagine your God assign to your life will do you no good whatsoever.
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RE: Does human life have INHERENT value?
June 21, 2015 at 6:51 pm
(June 21, 2015 at 6:22 pm)Alex K Wrote: (June 21, 2015 at 6:11 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: (June 21, 2015 at 4:08 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Do you, as atheists, believe that human life has inherent value? (this means human life has value, in and of itself, unconditionally)
Definition of inherent (as per webster):
a permanent and inseparable element, quality, or attribute
If so, why do you believe this and how did you come to that conclusion?
(PS - No agenda here, just honestly curious about what you think and why you think it. If you do not want to hear my opinions, don't ask. I promise not to talk about them otherwise.)
As atheists, no one has an opinion on that subject. Atheism does not entail anything about the question at all.
In my opinion, value requires a valuer. That is to say, the value of something does not reside in the something, it resides in the individual making the value judgement. See the meaning of the word "value":
Quote:value
noun
1[MASS NOUN] The regard that something is held to deserve; the importance, worth, or usefulness of something:your support is of great value
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defini...ctCode=all
Consequently, nothing could possibly have inherent value.
I agree on all that, couldn't say it better
Alex, you show great wisdom.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
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RE: Does human life have INHERENT value?
June 21, 2015 at 6:53 pm
As far as we know, we are the only means the universe has for grokking itself.
Our value is infinite.
The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it.
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Does human life have INHERENT value?
June 21, 2015 at 6:58 pm
(June 21, 2015 at 5:44 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Yes, I believe human life has inherent value. That means it is itself valuable. It is not conditional. It is not valuble only if other people value it. It is valuable because it is. That is the very nature of it.
Obviously, I believe this because I believe that God created human life, and that He created it with value.
If your God created human life with value then people would not be infirmed or die.
I take care of things that I value. Your God doesn't.
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RE: Does human life have INHERENT value?
June 21, 2015 at 6:59 pm
(June 21, 2015 at 6:51 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: (June 21, 2015 at 6:22 pm)Alex K Wrote: I agree on all that, couldn't say it better
Alex, you show great wisdom.
And how simple it is!
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: Does human life have INHERENT value?
June 21, 2015 at 7:10 pm
(This post was last modified: June 21, 2015 at 7:10 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
(June 21, 2015 at 6:58 pm)KUSA Wrote: (June 21, 2015 at 5:44 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Yes, I believe human life has inherent value. That means it is itself valuable. It is not conditional. It is not valuble only if other people value it. It is valuable because it is. That is the very nature of it.
Obviously, I believe this because I believe that God created human life, and that He created it with value.
If your God created human life with value then people would not be infirmed or die.
I take care of things that I value. Your God doesn't.
To be fair, part of our "belief in God" is the belief that dying is just the transition into the next, eternal life.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Does human life have INHERENT value?
June 21, 2015 at 7:12 pm
(This post was last modified: June 21, 2015 at 7:17 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Which doesn't...in any way, modify his statements, or the fact that you will age, become frail, suffer one indignity after another, and finally shit yourself and die. I'm not beating the shit out of my children and forcing them to lie in their own vomit with the promise that "hey, one day you'll grow up and all of this sad shit will go away, I'll turn into a cool guy all of sudden - NOW PLAY THE FUCKING HARP!"...nor am I neglecting them knowing that one day I will no longer be -capable- of neglecting them, and thus their situation will be improved.
This "eternal life" nonsense doesn't excuse the status of our mortal lives......and I'm not enough of a sucker to keep waiting until tomorrow for what I am promised today. Let's remember, of course....that some of our "eternal lives" won't be so rosy...either.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Does human life have INHERENT value?
June 21, 2015 at 7:15 pm
(June 21, 2015 at 6:06 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (June 21, 2015 at 6:05 pm)Minimalist Wrote: It always gets down to the ultimately silly bottom line, doesn't it?
Thank you for your contribution to my thread. I respect your opinion.
No you don't. The magical thinking crowd never does.
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RE: Does human life have INHERENT value?
June 21, 2015 at 7:23 pm
Humans, in general, have value; the value they assign to themselves or others. As such, it's not inherent.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
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RE: Does human life have INHERENT value?
June 21, 2015 at 7:25 pm
(June 21, 2015 at 7:15 pm)Minimalist Wrote: (June 21, 2015 at 6:06 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Thank you for your contribution to my thread. I respect your opinion.
No you don't. The magical thinking crowd never does.
I'm sorry you think that.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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