Does God only work through Magic?

[Drich]

That seems to be a 'learn-ed' man's silly perception. That once 'science' can explain a 'natural phemona' works it can no longer be of God. My question to you is why is that? Why can't 'science' be the how God does what He does, rather than the so called 'proof' their is no God?

Way ahead of you.  That is why I favor admitting that 'supernatural' is an empty set.  If there is know-how behind everything your god does that only shows that our knowledge of the natural is incomplete.

So do we have a deal?  Science cannot falsify god and god is not supernatural.

depnends on your ideas on what 'supernatural' is. Because God can side step the natural, but at the same time if He created everything why would He need to? Why not just manipulate what He has put into place?

For God to spend time in a day would be no different than man harnessing the wind in a sail, or to create electricity. He understands how everything works and can manipulate what He has put into place to obtain His ends. What makes something like this 'supernatural' is the fact that we can not explain what has happened.  So despite what has happened (whether we can explain it or not God still has the ablity to do what ever when ever to obtain his end goal.

[TubbyTubby]

God still has the ablity to do what ever when ever to obtain his end goal.

Bet he can't pat his head and rub his belly at the same time.

I think that about suits the level of this conversation.

I can only conclude that your personal god has some extremely questionable end goals from my observations.

[Drich]

Why would god want us not to believe in him?

Not all of us Are His Children. This life is to help us separate ourselves. Jesus told many parables on this. The 10 virgins, the wheat and weeds, the sheep and goats, the wheat and chaff.. all of these parables point to a separation of the followers of God from those who want nothing to do with Him.

Why only show your interventions through the means of natural events?

A natural even does not mean you nor any of us can repeat what was done.

Which is more likely, that these so-called divine interventions are actually natural events, or it is god's pathetic attempt at getting our attention? If god knew that these scientific processes would come about, why not leave a series of strong evidence that couldn't be refuted of his existence?Why not reveal yourself to the world in a manner that couldn't be denied?

What if He did that very thing, but on a personal level. That way those who want to be goats, Weeds, and Chaff have the 'evidence' they need to live their life, and those looking to be sheep, Wheat and Grain have the absolute proof they need to live Under God?

We know you won't actually think about these questions, but these are the type of questions that go through our heads.

:Roflol:
Yeah, never once came across my mind..

Questions, a rational mind uses to try and figure out if a claim about the supernatural is true or not, since we have no means of actually testing it.

You seem to be struggling with the point of the OP. In that God does not have to be supernatural. In fact if God created the natural universe then why would He create it in such a way as to have to move 'supernaturally' through it?

Your questions are an attempt to solidify your already, practically unshakeable beliefs. You're taking what we know in the natural world, and trying to mold all of these facts around your god belief as best as you can to try to convince yourself that he exists. Nice try.

How can you make an assertion like that if you do not understand the OP you are responding to?

[Nope]

Yes, a deity could work the way you describe; however, it would seem silly/cruel of him to expect that people worship him under those same conditions. In your analogy, the pianist isn't expecting the mice to worship him. You can make a case for a deist type of god that leaves his/her creation alone after setting things in motion but it is a big jump from there to the type of god described in Christianity.

What makes you think God has left us alone? In the story the third mouse stopped at discovering the mechanical workings of the paino, but as you well know there is much more to a piano making music. If the 3rd mouse kept looking, he would have discovered the keys and ultimately the hands that operated those keys... But again the point of the story was to illustrate that the mouse stopped looking once he could describe how the piano works.

We too stop looking in 'science' once we discover how the 'piano works.' but do not consider the being operating the keys. IF science always stops where the 3rd mouse stops then that would indicate a huge flaw in 'science' Again IF in fact there is a God.

You are interpreting the story with your particular religion in mind but the pianist isn't trying to do anything for the mice. He isn't guiding them or making rules for them and is probably not even aware that they are there. The pianist would probably hire an exterminator or buy a cat if he or she knew they had an infestation of rodents. That sounds like a deist version of a deity.

[Drich]

Why can't 'science' be the how God does what He does, rather than the so called 'proof' their is no God?

"Science" seems to work just fine without your fucking god.  'God' on the other hand seems fairly inept all by himself.

For example:  When humanity imagined that "demons" drove people crazy your lame-assed god ran around driving out demons.  Now that we know about mental illnesses you want to give your 'god' credit for developing Prozac.  Why couldn't 'god' create Prozac instead of running around like a fuckhead driving out demons?  Why is your god constrained by the technology of the society of the time?  Why is your god such an inept putz?

And then, why are you such an inept putz for not seeing through him?

just because we named the specific illiness that cause the loss or partial mental control does not mean Demonic forces are not still at work, again who's to say manipulating neuro transmitters or brain chemistry is not "the hammers striking the strings" mouse 3 saw?

[Drich]

You have to wonder what the best possible response he expects by posting this tosh here. He'd be much better off venting his mouse story on an xtian forum where they'll lap it up with blessings and amens.

I am looking to try and get you guys to think outside the 'box' men like dawkins and voltare put you in.

[Drich]

That seems to be a 'learn-ed' man's silly perception. That once 'science' can explain a 'natural phemona' works it can no longer be of God. My question to you is why is that? Why can't 'science' be the how God does what He does, rather than the so called 'proof' their is no God?

If you think about it for a moment God is the creator of the NATURAL Universe. Which means He would have been the being who put all of the laws that govern how everything works into place. The same laws we are recording and giving our own names and titles to. So if this is the case why would God create a universe that He has to move or circumvent the natural laws inorder to make something happen. Not to say God can circumvent the natural world, if He wanted, but why would you create something that you have to circumvent everytime you want something done??? If it is in your power to create something that will only in the end lend itself to you and your end game wouldn't that be smarter?
...

You have just explained one of the reasons why the god described in the Bible is imperfect.  A perfect being would NEVER perform a miracle, because, if he created anything (which he wouldn't, but that is a topic for another conversation) he would have set things up right in the first place.

A god that has to perform miracles to tweak things is an incompetent buffoon who failed to set things up properly in the first place.  Thus, if there is a perfect being, it cannot be the god of the Bible, as it would NEVER perform miracles.

The Bible is a false, blasphemous book, that you should reject.

No what I did was underscore that God set things up perfectly and would not need to circumvent them. Again we only identify miricals as magic because the men of that day did not understand what they saw. They just knew it was beyond their realm. hence supernatural mirical.

[FatAndFaithless]

"God created the nautral word because the bible says so" is NOT thinking outside the box, Drips. It's about the most confined way of thinking I can imagine.

[Drich]

'Science' as you understand it/have defined it is an excuse to not believe in God. Similarly 'science' can also be a tool used to show how God operates.

I have no doubt that your "understanding of science" can be used to show (in your mind) anything you would like, of which you really have no understanding at all.

how many planets are their in the solar system? How many 20 years ago? where is the hole in the O-zone? what cause it? what does a stegosaurus look like, when are we to experience a mini ice age according to the global cooling model??

In order to answer any of these questions you need to reference something someone has done in the name of 'science.' Now to say all of these theorys (right and wrong alike) is not a product of someone making 'science' say what they want it to say, take far more faith, than what is needed for God to open your ears and eyes to him.

[The Grand Nudger]

Your misunderstanding of science is only rivaled for it's complete and total incompetence by your misunderstanding of god.