Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach

[Minimalist]

He's O/D'd on the jesus freak Kool Aid.

The Evidence Demands a Response

Now, all you need is evidence instead of the same old bullshit you've been spewing since the start.

[Randy Carson]

I'm assuming that somebody already told this guy that some of the earliest copies we've uncovered of the New Testament never made any mention of a ressurection, right?

The following passage of Paul's first Letter to the Corinthians contains a "proto-creed" of the early Church which Paul probably learned from the apostles within five years of the resurrection of Jesus.

1 Corinthians 15
15 Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

The letter was written before the gospels.

Hope this helps.

[Randy Carson]

He's O/D'd on the jesus freak Kool Aid.

The Evidence Demands a Response

Now, all you need is evidence instead of the same old bullshit you've been spewing since the start.

Now all you need to do is open some books, learn a few ancient languages, spend 20 years studying the texts...and then, maybe, you will be in a position to even attempt to refute Ehrman & Co.

But you don't have 20 years, do you?

[Minimalist]

I'm not going to waste time dismissing you - actually you have already been dismissed - and your fucking fairy tales.

Just sit back and let jesusism fade away.  It can flush you down the shitter with it.

[Losty]

1. Jesus died by crucifixion

This is a claim only.  Many people were crucified, no doubt some of them with the same name.  There is no evidence that the person referred to in the bible was actually a living, breathing person.

2. Jesus' disciples believed that He rose and appeared to them

Yes they did.  And their accounts of this "event" are contradictory at best.  But then some people claim that Jesus appears to them on toast.  Are we to believe them, just because they make the claim?

3. Saul, the persecutor of the Church, was suddenly changed

People change.  I've known truly devout people in one religion to become truly devout in another. 

4. James, the skeptical brother of Jesus, was suddenly changed

As above.


5. Jesus' tomb was found to be empty

Again, a claim.  See my answer to 1., above

Let's say we find an empty grave now on 2015. Would we suspect a resurrection or grave robbers? Just wondering.

[Randy Carson]

I'm not going to waste time dismissing you - actually you have already been dismissed - and your fucking fairy tales.

Just sit back and let jesusism fade away.  It can flush you down the shitter with it.

Jesus loves you, Min.

[Randy Carson]

1. Jesus died by crucifixion

This is a claim only.  Many people were crucified, no doubt some of them with the same name.  There is no evidence that the person referred to in the bible was actually a living, breathing person.

2. Jesus' disciples believed that He rose and appeared to them

Yes they did.  And their accounts of this "event" are contradictory at best.  But then some people claim that Jesus appears to them on toast.  Are we to believe them, just because they make the claim?

3. Saul, the persecutor of the Church, was suddenly changed

People change.  I've known truly devout people in one religion to become truly devout in another. 

4. James, the skeptical brother of Jesus, was suddenly changed

As above.


5. Jesus' tomb was found to be empty

Again, a claim.  See my answer to 1., above

Let's say we find an empty grave now on 2015. Would we suspect a resurrection or grave robbers? Just wondering.

The latter. Unless we had:

1. A promise to rise from the dead beforehand.
2. Verification of death.
3. Witnesses who saw the person alive afterward.
4. Conversion of both skeptics and enemies resulting from appearances.

You know, the kind of stuff Christians have...

[Chas]

Let's say we find an empty grave now on 2015. Would we suspect a resurrection or grave robbers? Just wondering.

The latter. Unless we had:

1. A promise to rise from the dead beforehand.
2. Verification of death.
3. Witnesses who saw the person alive afterward.
4. Conversion of both skeptics and enemies resulting from appearances.

You know, the kind of stuff Christians have...

No, the kind of stuff Christians claim to have.  There is no corroborating evidence.  

The Bible is the claim; it is not the evidence.

[Randy Carson]

I'll be checking the thread periodically from now on, but unless something substantive is posted, there won't be any further need for me to respond.

Thank you all for your non-participation. It has been most instructive.

Oh, and when you go to bed tonight (and you don't forget to NOT say your prayers to a non-existent God), while you're lying there in the dark, just remember that you have no rebuttals for these five facts which point to the resurrection of Jesus.

Sweet dreams.

[Dystopia]

1. Jesus died by crucifixion

This is a claim only.  Many people were crucified, no doubt some of them with the same name.  There is no evidence that the person referred to in the bible was actually a living, breathing person.

2. Jesus' disciples believed that He rose and appeared to them

Yes they did.  And their accounts of this "event" are contradictory at best.  But then some people claim that Jesus appears to them on toast.  Are we to believe them, just because they make the claim?

3. Saul, the persecutor of the Church, was suddenly changed

People change.  I've known truly devout people in one religion to become truly devout in another. 

4. James, the skeptical brother of Jesus, was suddenly changed

As above.


5. Jesus' tomb was found to be empty

Again, a claim.  See my answer to 1., above

Let's say we find an empty grave now on 2015. Would we suspect a resurrection or grave robbers? Just wondering.

Hi Losty, I've missed you!

/Backtotopic