Something I'm sick of hearing

[Regina]

When someone talks about something shitty a religion has done;

"China is an atheist country but it killed millions of people!"

"Oh but the USSR was atheist and it made being gay illegal!"

"Nazi Germany was atheist and it had The Holocaust!"

I'm sick of these circular-ass conversations with religious people (and apologists) about how "Russia, China and Germany were atheist but they killed x million people". Fuck explaining to this lot that these three states were still "religious" and dogmatic, in that they basically worshipped their venerated leaders as infallible and above human. Fuck telling this lot that living in Nazi Germany and being treated poorly was not "atheism", and that it is the cultural legacy of religion and dogmatism working through proxy, through being imprinted on the social and political fabric of society.

It's a false equivalency to compare their systems to democratic secular societies which grant freedom of religion and self-expression. The only thing these three "atheist states" have in common with secular democracies is that they didn't like religion having power. That's the only common thread.

Side-note I probably posted this thread in the wrong section, if any mods want to move it somewhere more suitable feel free.

[Thumpalumpacus]

And on top of that, none of that explains why any Christian regime should be murdering any one, in contravention of a key commandment.

[Regina]

And on top of that, none of that explains why any Christian regime should be murdering any one, in contravention of a key commandment.

Exactly, it's just a derailment tactic to take the conversation off the bigger issue.

[Minimalist]

That issue of course being, why are xtians such hypocritical motherfuckers.

[Thumpalumpacus]

That issue of course being, why are xtians such hypocritical motherfuckers.

That reminds me, I've got to go see if Randy has been shitposting in CL's thread again.

[Alex K]

Well I know that's not your point, but Nazi Germany certainly wasn't anything close to an atheist country.

[Longhorn]

100% of murderers drank water at some point in their life, so the only logical conclusion is that drinking water leads to murder

Even when you show me an atheist state that killed specifically in the name of atheism, it's still only a tu quoque -_-

[Dystopia]

Honestly I think both sides miss the point - The first thing is that this is not a competition so you can't simply point out "Hey you did it too!" but I think atheists are simply to naive to even check Marxism and dismiss everything immedeatly based on the modern definition of atheism - And don't forget, it is only a lack of belief in gods because it says in the dictionary. The truth is that Marxism promotes materialism and atheism and it's a view not compatible (or hardly) with religion so it is hostile towards it - In some ways, political ideologies work like religions because there's principles and rules. It's not as simple as "both had mustaches" and all because there's a lot of complexity into it and atheism was defined as a strong non belief and not just as a lack of thereof.

[abaris]

The truth is that Marxism promotes materialism and atheism and it's a view not compatible (or hardly) with religion so it is hostile towards it.

And yet, there's no European communist country where religion was outright forbidden. They made life hard for churches and devout christians had it harder to land a decent job, since being seen as ideologically less reliable they often were excluded from attending university. Certainly not a comfortable life, but no outright persecution either.

I can't speak for the Asian communist regimes because I know too little about them.

[Regina]

Well I know that's not your point, but Nazi Germany certainly wasn't anything close to an atheist country.

I did think that, but it is seriously an arguement they pull out. They are under some misguided impression it was atheist.

Hitler was raised Catholic but kind of informally left it as an adult, he never explicitly called himself an "atheist" but him just growing to dislike the religion is enough for these people to call him that. And he was raised it, no doubt he got all his views from it.