Ask a Traditional Catholic

[PiousPaladin]

I would say he has already begun doing so, we have IS in the East and the beginnings of the fall of civilization in the Western World. We have seen how morality has crumbled in the past eighty years since the heresy of liberalism begun to take hold.

It may not be quite as visually spectacular as that of Gomorrah but I believe the chastisement has already begun.

If you are into Fatima, do you believe that the Consecration of Russia occurred?

This is a topic of debate within the SSPX. We are rather split on the matter.

I personally originally did not think it did, but in light of the revival of Christianity and the subjugation of the liberals in Russia underneath Putin I am starting to wonder if in fact it may have. Of course to have an Orthodox leader hardly is a good sign, but his actions have been rather promising.

[Cyberman]

Many of the conquistadors were greedy, but they were accompanied later by priests who brought the true religion to the mesoamerican pagans.

In that light they saved the souls of thousands of people from damnation, they are heroes.

Not surprisingly, reality disagrees:

The Christian missionary mindset is generally depicted as that of simple religious folk with a pure desire to peacefully spread their gospel and message of love. In reality, their methods of propagation are often anything but peaceful and usually leave behind a native population stripped of their culture and often decimated. With Christianity failing in the west, the evangelists seek new and greener fields in the poor and uneducated sections of third world countries, backed by huge coffers from the less zealous, who are nonetheless convinced that to bring civilization and religion to the poor natives is a noble cause, even if they don’t want it. Missionaries often intermix military campaigns with missionary campaigns in their fervor to “civilize the heathens,” who are often simple happy natives, whose only crime is that they are not Christians. This mood of conquering the heathens by any means, at any cost, is supported in the Bible:

“Thou shalt save alive nothing that breathest. But thou shalt utterly destroy them…” (Deut 20)

“But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.” (Luke 19.27)

In the words of one resident of Thailand, “They [Christian missionaries] seemed that they did not show any interest for our culture. Why? They are just eager to build big churches in every village. It seems that they are having two faces; under the title of help they suppress us. To the world, they gained their reputations as benefactors of disappearing tribes. They built their reputations on us for many years. The way they behaved with us seemed as if we did not know about god before they arrived here.”[1]

“Why do missionaries think they are the only ones who can perceive God?”

In fact, most of the civilizations which were overrun by zealous Christians in their conversion fervor, were highly evolved in their moral standards, with complex social structures, high standards of cleanliness and hygiene, decorative art and evolved sciences, and content with their own religion.

The arrival of Christianity actually caused these civilizations to move backwards.

Historian Edmund S. Morgan compiled the following description from Christian accounts of events occurring in one of the earliest settlements of English Christians, in Roanoke, Virginia in 1580:

“Wingina [the local chief] welcomed the visitors, and the Indians gave freely of their supplies to the English, who had lost most of their own when the Tyger [their ship] grounded.” [9]

“Indian openness and generosity were met with European stealth and greed. Ritualized Indian warfare, in which few people died in battle, was met with the European belief in devastating holy war. Vast stores of grain and other food supplies that Indian peoples had lain aside became the fuel that [later] drove the Europeans forward.” [10]

“Indians who came to the English settlements with food for the British (who seemed never able to feed themselves) were captured, accused of being spies, and executed. Peace treaties were signed with every intention to violate them: when the Indians ‘grow secure uppon the treatie,’ advised the Counsel of State in Virginia, ‘we shall have the better advantage both to surprise them & cutt downe theire Corne.’ ” [11]

Arthur Barlowe, one of the first Christians ever to set foot on Virginia soil, described the natives he encountered in 1584 as follows:

“…we were entertained with all love and kindness and with as much bounty, …as they could possibly devise. We found the people most gentle loving, and faithfull, void of all guile and treason … a more kind and loving people there cannot be found in the world, as farre as we have hitherto had triall.” [12]

Their supposedly Christian treatment of these friendly native Americas was that:

“…we burnt, and spoyled their corne, and Towne, all the people beeing fledde.” [13]

Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out, eh?

[PiousPaladin]

Yes, the daily Aztec and Inca human sacrificial rituals were proof of a highly developed moral structure. What rubbish!

More liberal revisionism. The arrival of Christianity dragged them out from the gutter in which they had been floundering.

[IATIA]

That cannot be tolerated, it must be stopped. In ages past we could simply shun you from polite society if you scandalized the faithful, now in this dark age we must return to the methods of the Church Fathers and the Doctors of the Church.

I have read on the Inquisition and the Crusades, that is what cannot be tolerated. If I want to go to hell, that is my prerogative to choose through my free will and it is no business of yours. I do not intend to take you with me, only my friends.

[PiousPaladin]

That cannot be tolerated, it must be stopped. In ages past we could simply shun you from polite society if you scandalized the faithful, now in this dark age we must return to the methods of the Church Fathers and the Doctors of the Church.

I have read on the Inquisition and the Crusades, that is what cannot be tolerated.  If I want to go to hell, that is my prerogative to choose through my free will and it is no business of yours.  I do not intend to take you with me, only my friends.

Were it that simple. When you sin you may lead other observers to sin with you. That simply cannot be risked, that is why scandal is forbidden. Why do you think the church has gone to such great pains to prevent co habitation and keep the gossip of acts of sexual immorality in the confessional where they should have remained? Such revelations weaken the faith of those who hear them, and such an injury upon souls must be punished.

[Cyberman]

Yeah - because human sacrifice is all those societies were about. They deserved all the genocide they got.

[Cyberman]

I agree with your point about revisionism and wish you wouldn't keep doing it.

[PiousPaladin]

Yeah - because human sacrifice is all those societies were about. They deserved all the genocide they got.

The figures of such claimed genocide are grossly overinflated and unrealistic. Even were they not it what does death matter compared to the wonderous gift of eternal life to be found within the teachings of the true religion?

Even if the figures were ten times as high as the ones you refer to it would still be worth it to share the message.

[Cyberman]

You heard it here, folks - the ironically named Pious Paladin advocates genocide as a means to spread that glorious xtian love.

[The Valkyrie]

Yes, the daily Aztec and Inca human sacrificial rituals were proof of a highly developed moral structure. What rubbish!

More liberal revisionism. The arrival of Christianity dragged them out from the gutter in which they had been floundering.

Yes, genocide and destruction of native societies have always been such fine, Christian values.

Ask the Inca king who was captured, tortured, forced to convert to Christianity, paid a huge ransom in gold and silver and was then murdered anyway.

And before you complain about human sacrifice, the whole concept of the NT is based on an act of human sacrifice because and all powerful deity apparently couldn't change his own rules.