Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: March 29, 2024, 3:33 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Hate forums: What are your thoughts?
#11
RE: Hate forums: What are your thoughts?
I'm indifferent to them - As long as they merely exercise free speech, I'm not going to oppose those websites' existence - Obviously some members may take action against what they perceive to be a threat and they should be treated as criminals but a distinction should be made between legitimate incitement to criminality in the website itself and a member who happened to post there and solely decided to commit a crime.

Keep in mind that hate sites are not just white supremacist ones but a lot of anti-gay, anti-women and similar ones - There's also social institutions and associations for that purpose. Some hate groups are openly hateful and you can detect their agenda miles away, others are more subtle and try to justify their hate trough science and so on.

Stormfront, from my experience viewing a few topics, has essentially 2 kinds of members - The first is the most vulgar one and they basically hate anyone who isn't white, the second is more sophisticated, uses science as a "tool" to justify racism and merely wants white people to exist independently without mixing with other races ("Africa for Africans, Europe for Europeans, etc etc"), this person may have a decent/high IQ, listen to classical music and think they're superior and owners of ideas that no one gets b sides them.

Also, I think hate groups are probably symptoms of much larger issues, such as underlying racism and bigotry against groups of people.

Legislation about hate groups depends on the country. In America most of them are allowed, but for example in Italy stormfront was removed from search engines in google and in Germany the police frequently works undercover in stormfront and invites members for "meeting up".

Quote:In 2002, Google complied with French and German legislation forbidding links to websites which host white supremacist, Holocaust-denying, or historical revisionist material by removing Stormfront.org from their French and German indexes.[16]

Quote:In a 2001 USA Today article, journalist Tara McKelvey called Stormfront "the most visited white supremacist site on the net".[27] The number of registered users on the site rose from 5,000 in January 2002 to 52,566 in June 2005,[28] by which year it was the 338th largest internet forum, receiving more than 1,500 hits each weekday and ranking in the top one percent of internet sites in terms of use.[29][30] By June 2008, the site was attracting more than 40,000 unique users each day.[31] Operating the site from its West Palm Beach, Florida headquarters is Black's full-time job, and he is assisted by his son and 40 moderators.[12][31][32] The popularity of the site attracted attention from groups such as the Simon Wiesenthal Center and the Anti-Defamation League (ADL).[33] The ADL describes Stormfront as having "served as a veritable supermarket of online hate, stocking its shelves with many forms of anti-Semitism and racism".[34]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stormfront_(website)
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you

Reply
#12
RE: Hate forums: What are your thoughts?
I've spent a bit of time trolling stormfront before and their theology section is hilarious. The mental gymnastics they have to go through to reconcile Christianity with white nationalism is mind boggling. It's like everyone in there is a poe.

And I think it's says something that their Christian (and other religion's) forums are quite busy but the atheism forum is completely dead.
Reply
#13
RE: Hate forums: What are your thoughts?
(July 6, 2015 at 8:42 am)jesus_wept Wrote: And I think it's says something that their Christian (and other religion's) forums are quite busy but the atheism forum is completely dead.

Well to be fair, there's only so many times you can go through the doctrine of atheism.
Reply
#14
RE: Hate forums: What are your thoughts?
(July 6, 2015 at 7:59 am)paulpablo Wrote:
(July 6, 2015 at 5:37 am)TheMonster Wrote: I know this is off topic, but what do you guys think of websites like Stormfront or any other "white nationalist" websites?

The fact they exist scares the shit out of me! I mean, yeah freedom of speech and all that, but seriously, every year at least one hundred murders are linked to storefront alone.

If you browse through their pages, there are eery mentions of race wars, interracial "mongrels", the need for "white only" countries, hate of homosexuals, antisemitism, Holocaust deniers, conspiracy theories,  even planning of mass shootings (I shit you not!) and so on.

Are they trolling? Are they serious? (Some should be as they committed hate crimes and they proudly announce it with evidence)

I mean I understand (but do not condone in anyway) nationality based supremacy, but seriously race based ones? It seems so arbitrary, I mean Iraqis are technically "White", but I am sure these guys will not include them in their ranks!

What are your thoughts? Should we be concerned?

Can we classify them as terrorists? (Because we classify people of color who do similar things as terrorists)?

Are you claiming that at the moment we aren't classifying white terrorists are terrorists because they aren't a "person of colour" The main person everyone knows about connected to storm front was Anders Breivik, convicted of terrorism and classified as a terrorist.
So yes we can and do classify them as terrorists if they are involved in acts of terrorism.

If a black muslim commits a murder like the people who murdered lee Rigby in London then they are convicted of murder and not terrorism, the judge isn't likely to change the conviction of murder to terrorism on the grounds that they are black. and Muslim

I also think you got the statistic wrong, it's nearly 100 murders in the last 5 years.  http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2014/04/17...ont-users/

I'm not really afraid of it, on a day to day basis I mainly focus on the things I can prevent the easiest, I can't really take steps to avoid being the victim of random crazy spree killers or terrorists.

As for racial superiority vs national superiority I suppose it's just a question of nature vs nurture.  A persons race (if you believe race exists) is part of their nature and their genetics which makes people excel in certain measurable values such as strength speed and intelligence.  But then without good nurturing and being raised in a country where you don't die at a young age from starvation for example is also important to excel in anyway.  I think it's equally illogical to think you're superior purely because of your race, as it is to believe you're superior because of your nationality.


I was referring to the fact that white supremacist crimes usually get pinned on some sort of mental disorder. The same does not necessarily apply to Muslims. Have you ever heard of a Muslim man who did something terrible because he was "mentally ill"? That shit never gets reported.
It is a documented fact: http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteveryt...terrorism/
I know it is not the case all the time, it is however all too common in places like the US and UK.

Sorry for misquoting the number of murders. I was trying to remember it off the top of my head. 20/year is serious none the less, and most are committed in the US. However, they are now trying to get people form other "white" countries to support their cause such as Australia, SA and Canada, with varying levels of success.

I do agree that people with certain genetics (not necessarily with race) do have some superior qualities. However, a lot has to do with other factors, 90% I would say. Culture, nurture and the environment play a huge role (even things like what your mother did when you were pregnant). For example: Most Asians in the US and Canada do better in school than their peers not necessarily because they are genetically better, but because the culture demands high standards from them. As the UN's Africa plan team put it: " What if the cure for cancer is stuck in the hear of an uneducated African child living in poverty?"

I said nationality "makes sense" because I can understand (but disagree with these idiots) why people love their country and wish to protect it. Some people might see immigrants as harming their nation or the way they think their nation should look like. I can see the logic in that, but I fail to see any logic in people who believe in "White nations" and their inherent superiority.

As they say: "If the only thing that makes you proud is your race, then that says a lot about what you have accomplished in life"
Reply
#15
RE: Hate forums: What are your thoughts?
(July 6, 2015 at 8:42 am)jesus_wept Wrote: I've spent a bit of time trolling stormfront before and their theology section is hilarious. The mental gymnastics they have to go through to reconcile Christianity with white nationalism is mind boggling. It's like everyone in there is a poe.

And I think it's says something that their Christian (and other religion's) forums are quite busy but the atheism forum is completely dead.

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t771106/

Really? There's similar topics on white supremacists coming out as atheists all over the forum if you use the search engine. 

But yeah, they do go trough a lot of hassle to reconcile Christianity with supremacism, particularly with all the "love thy neighbour" stuff
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you

Reply
#16
RE: Hate forums: What are your thoughts?
I'm banned for being "a communist" so I can't look but their atheist forum always used to be dead. And if be surprised if it still wasn't. Obviously you'll find some atheists there, but nowhere near the number of religious nuts.
Reply
#17
RE: Hate forums: What are your thoughts?
Really? I mean it's obvious some of them (probably more than 50%) are Christian but I think their ideology is more focused on racial purity than religion itself - To some degree, white nationalism works like a religion. I have argued that nazism is anti-religion not because nazis can't be religious but because it promotes the worship of the State and an ideal of purity that makes religion incompatible since it requires worshiping a more supreme being. I think Christian supremacists are more KKK and so on but far-right parties in Europe are very open to secularists specially the National Front in France.

It's funny how they use the word "cultural marxism" when what they perceive as being cultural marxism has little to do with marxism and more with liberalism itself, which is anti-marxist by nature. I'm always amazed by how extreme factions label anyone who does not agree with them as oppressive. This happens with a lot of people. I can't argue with a very devout communist because he'll call me a burgueoise, and a far-right nazi will call me a race traitor. It's not fair
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you

Reply
#18
RE: Hate forums: What are your thoughts?
(July 6, 2015 at 10:29 am)Dystopia Wrote: I have argued that nazism is anti-religion not because nazis can't be religious but because it promotes the worship of the State and an ideal of purity that makes religion incompatible since it requires worshiping a more supreme being.

No, it isn't. Not for the reasons you're giving. Nazism was a and still is a racist ideology. The state isn't worshiped but the race and the people belonging to it. The people as a whole, not the individual. Individuality has no place in nazism.

In many aspects it is compatible with religion, in other aspects it isn't - at least if you take the happy go lucky parts of christianity.
[Image: Bumper+Sticker+-+Asheville+-+Praise+Dog3.JPG]
Reply
#19
RE: Hate forums: What are your thoughts?
Quote:I mean, yeah freedom of speech and all that, but

No.  No "buts."
Reply
#20
RE: Hate forums: What are your thoughts?
(July 6, 2015 at 11:07 am)abaris Wrote:
(July 6, 2015 at 10:29 am)Dystopia Wrote: I have argued that nazism is anti-religion not because nazis can't be religious but because it promotes the worship of the State and an ideal of purity that makes religion incompatible since it requires worshiping a more supreme being.

No, it isn't. Not for the reasons you're giving. Nazism was a and still is a racist ideology. The state isn't worshiped but the race and the people belonging to it. The people as a whole, not the individual. Individuality has no place in nazism.

In many aspects it is compatible with religion, in other aspects it isn't - at least if you take the happy go lucky parts of christianity.

For a nazi State religion is a useful tool to unite the people and promote nationalism, but let's not be naive - A great deal of nazi policies were either incompatible or completely not based on religion. The eugenics scientific program that sought to create a perfect human being was not based on the bible but gross misinterpretations of Darwin and "science" - These programs of eugenics were actually popular and being discussed in Europe and the US, and Sweden even had compulsory sterilization for some people until 2013.

My argument is not that you can't be religious and a nazi, but to some degree you need to sacrifice your religion and do the worst, most irrational cherry pickings to satisfy the State. If you want to go the Love Thy neighbor path then the State will stop you because that means you have to be nice to Jews. If you want to say Jesus was most likely ethnically Jewish and totally not white you're gonna get into some trouble. If your church is pro-democracy and supports human dignity it's going to be in trouble. In the end, it's not openly anti-religion, but it's anti-religion when religion requires some kind of commitment that is incompatible with the ideology and the State, the nation and the Law. Even if you go for the most horrible parts of Christianity and justify killing Jews, nothing justifies the "scientific" racism and eugenics - Didn't Jesus pretty much help the weak, the poor and said rich men would not get into heaven?
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you

Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Random Thoughts Foxaèr 10779 201168 8 hours ago
Last Post: BrianSoddingBoru4
  Thoughts on sexual services? Macoleco 25 1948 September 7, 2022 at 10:57 am
Last Post: HappySkeptic
  One thing I hate about the human language. Brian37 13 1062 June 25, 2021 at 11:19 pm
Last Post: Ranjr
  Your thoughts on the validity of this? ignoramus 12 1825 April 12, 2021 at 10:28 pm
Last Post: Rev. Rye
  My HATE Thread! impaler 46 2622 September 2, 2020 at 2:23 pm
Last Post: Divinity
  I hate it when I do that... onlinebiker 22 1179 July 15, 2020 at 12:44 pm
Last Post: Fireball
  Other forums you belong to... arewethereyet 9 827 June 8, 2020 at 7:50 am
Last Post: Gwaithmir
  Other forums just aren't the same Violet 18 1318 May 3, 2020 at 6:51 pm
Last Post: Violet
  Why I hate food critics.... Brian37 23 2708 January 21, 2020 at 10:14 am
Last Post: tackattack
  Why I Hate Music Critics BrianSoddingBoru4 2 714 January 19, 2020 at 9:26 pm
Last Post: no one



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)