Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven?

[Nope]

What fun!  The OP poses a question that one might think could be answered clearly and unequivocally based on Yahweh's "inspired" Word, and what do we get?  A Catholic linking to an article that says that, yes, we will have free will in Heaven (but choose not to rebel) and a Protestant who says that, no, we do not have free will in Heaven or on Earth.

Who knew that childish fantasies could be so hard to understand?

There is no need to pay much attention to Protestantism. It's just another heresy.

What is your criteria for being a Christian? Drich says he believes that Jesus is the son of god so he is a Christian and a Protestant.

[Pyrrho]

Jesus Fuck! Even in a thread specifically created to discuss heaven.

Ever feel like the word "Fuck" isn't strong enough to express our utter disgust at the idiocy that has been passed off as truth by these numbskull theists..

Yes.  There are no words adequate for expressing the proper level of disgust for religious idiocy.

[ignoramus]

Would : "Brain numbingly flabbergasted"  be enough?
Didn't think so......

[Godscreated]

I'm responding to show your mistakes and to me that renders this thread invalid.

I know most of you don’t believe in Heaven, but for the sake of argument, let’s imagine for a moment that we do.  Only if there is a Heaven can I take you to the logical conclusion I point out here.

Here we go again, you all accuse Christians of living a fairy tale, yet you want to make believe again and again.

You may have heard Christians convoluted explanation for why their god allows so much suffering in this world. Freewill, they tell us.

I think it pretty doubtful that Christians would say the main reason for suffering is freewill, disobedience is why there is suffering, we do not have to choose to disobey.

In order for us to have freewill, god had to allow us to choose evil.  To that we might ask why did god think that it was worth all this suffering to give us freewill? To this, they tell us that without freewill, it would be impossible for man to truly love god

Let's use the proper word here because it is choice you are talking about, so let's refer to it as choice. Freewill can cover a much greater amount of territory than choice, choice is in reality only a part of freewill.
God did allow us and does allow us to choose to disobey. He allows us to choose to accept or reject Him. This bold worded statement is the only true freedom of choice we have, like I've said before, after this God may use anyone at anytime to do what He wills. This doesn't mean God is controlling a persons entire life, just a small portion for His will to be accomplished.

DIGRESSION: Is there not something sadistic about a being that would put others in harm’s way just so they can prove their love? Something insecure, you might say?  I‘ll not make that argument here, but keep it in mind.

You digressed alright, into a fantasy you've made up to try and support this particular thread, if that isn't so you would not have mentioned it, nor would you have mention for everyone to keep it in mind.

Here, I raise the question will humans have freewill in Heaven? If so then the same possibility of evil and suffering will exist. What will the consequence be for those who sin in Heaven? What were the consequences for the angels that sinned?

To answer this freewill question so we can get back to choice, the answer is no, we will not have freewill in heaven. Now will we have choice, not really or at least the way you want to look at this question. We may have an eternity of choice, to choose things we would like to do, not to choose between obedience and non obedience, heaven will not be setup that way. There will only be good to choose from, we made our decision here and now, so there is no further reason to choose between good and bad. That question will have been resolved and is no further valid. There will be no sin in heaven because we will have choices that are for good and righteousness, for we will be holy as God is holy.
 

If true love and joy could not exist in Eden without freewill and the possibility of sin then it cannot exist in Heaven. In fact, there will not only be the possibility of sin, but it is probable, even inevitable that many humans will sin in heaven.

Here you are taking your own beliefs and applying them to what we know from scripture, these are not facts, in actuality you are trying to put your will above God's will and then determine how heaven will be, this is absolutely dishonest in an argument, an argument you actually do not have. True love did exist in Eden without freewill, they did not have such a thing, yes I and many Christians use this term "freewill" loosely because we use it among ourselves understanding we mean choice, so in a way it's our bad this term is used to freely and incorrectly. As I explained above sin will not exist in heave because there will be choices of good, not of disobedience or obedience.

Every human who goes to Heaven will know at least one person who did not make it. A spouse, a parent, a child, a friend. The book of Revelation tells us the smoke of their torment will go up before the Lord forever.

This means God will know they are suffering the eternal punishment they chose.

For the humans in Heaven, this will be a constant reminder of something sinister in god. This will be worse than slavery.

This is an attempt to ignore the scriptures you told me you knew so well, so if you do know them well you know you're trying to manipulate the atheist here who are ignorant of the scriptures, yes you are trying to use deceit to manipulate the atheist here, how nice of you to treat your friends in such a way.
The scriptures tell us that those who are in heaven will have all tears wiped away, we will have no more worries and no more suffering, this eliminates your attempt at deceit.

At this point, Christians will say that we will be so grateful for the sacrifice of Jesus that we won't want to rebel. Sacrifice alone cannot sustain gratitude. If anything, sacrifice with strings of obligation attached to it evokes resentment.

This is true, we will be, so why try to make it sound useless when it's not. Whoever said that sacrifice will be the only thing to sustain our gratitude to God, you that's who, again trying through deceit to make fools of your friends here. I know they are smarter than this, seems you are trying to rely on their ignorance of scripture to trick them into thinking your way. The above bold is mine and I thank you for showing why salvation has no strings attached, it's a free gift through belief and the grace of God. No works are required.

The smoke of the torment of our loved ones will go up as an eternal reminder to us of what will happen if we sin. Gratitude cannot be sustained under threat.

You're adding another thing to sustain gratitude and yet are not satisfied, I would bet you could add another thousand things and you wouldn't be satisfied, I see what your real intention was, name them one at a time so it looks like nothing can sustain gratitude. I've already explained that the smoke eludes to God's knowledge not ours, this justice is for His memory not those who live in heaven. Again a poor attempt if you were trying to fool the Christians here, that wasn't your intention, you knew we would know the difference, yet sadly it's your atheist friends you're trying to fool. Why I do not know unless it was to gain their favor through their ignorance of the scriptures, seems you have accomplished your use of them.

Gratitude and love will die and in their place will arise fear and hatred of this massa who cannot be resisted.

Where exactly did this come from can you give me books, chapters and verses where you found this. This must have taken much study and cross reference of books, chapters and verses to put together, so I'll accept a shorter version. Let me give you a quick version of what the scriptures say, there will be no more suffering, sorrow or tears in heaven, this comes from the One who created it.

Our fear and hatred will be known and surely punished. Since there will be no more sacrifice for sin the only punishment will be eternal damnation. The only way god can avoid eventually having to damn the entire human race is to take away our freewill.

To answer the last statement first seems to be appropriate at this point, we do not have the freewill you are trying to put upon us, not now or ever. We have choice and that's limited to God's will, and no I have no idea what the actual limit could be for me or anyone else. There will be no fear in heaven, it's told to us through the scriptures and hatred is sin and that want be in heaven either, many scriptures make this known to us.

It doesn't help to say that we will be perfect beings who won't have a sin nature that can feel fear, resentment and rebellion. The angels who rebelled in Heaven, not just the ones who rebelled with Satan but also the ones who in Jude left their first estate and married human women, were not descendants of Adam and had no sin nature but they did have freewill. Paul tells us we will be like the angels. If the angels could rebel then we will be able to as well.

Since you know the scriptures so well, you know Bible school and all, you know what you're stating here is false, again trying to deceive those who are ignorant of the scriptures for your own glory and you know what God says about that. You actually have no idea what Jude was saying do you, those angels were ones who sided with Lucifer. Paul speaks of the angels that have served God faithfully ever since the rebellion, and we are also told we will be made higher than the angels. It's very sad you want to use the ignorance of scripture many of the atheist here have to gain your own glory, very sad indeed.

Again, if god is able to let us have free will but still keep us from sin in Heaven then he could have done it in Eden and he could have kept the angels from rebelling. When Christians resort to the god can do anything answer, they defeat the god had to allow sin answer.

You are contradicting your own self here, you said if God had to take away our freewill that would be slavery if I remember right.

GC

[robvalue]

Well, I am impressed that some theists even attempted to address this point. That shows courage at least.

[Rhondazvous]

GC,

You have concluded that we will not have freewill in Heaven. Despite what you find doubtful, I have heard Christians who are far more knowledgeable about the Bible than you say that your god allowed sin to enter the world because he wanted us to have freewill and freewill means the possibility of sin. They used the worded freewill specifically. This is what I've heard and rad them say. Where in the Bible they got this doctrine, I do not know. My point is that this doctrine precludes the possibility of freewill in Heaven if Heaven will be a place where there is no sin. My argument is valid for those who hold this view. Since you do not then it is you who are irrelevant in this thread.

Nor is it dishonest for me to put my will above the will of a god who doesn't exist. There is no justice or love in a god who would punish people who have no freewill. For you to say that god can do what the fuck he wants with his fucking creation and who the fuck are we to question his fucking will is just fucking masochistic.

[Pyrrho]

Well, I am impressed that some theists even attempted to address this point. That shows courage at least.

If I remember correctly, Augustine addressed the issue of free will in heaven, so all they would have to be is well-read.

By the way, if you want to read religious craziness from someone who was relatively intelligent for a religious nut, Augustine is a good choice.  Of course, he was still a religious nut, and much of his writing is tedious.  Very tedious.  But he is much more intelligent than the Christians one typically finds on internet forums.  Much, much more intelligent.

If you want a suggestion for a start, let me know.  If you want to know what kind of jerk he was, you can read his Confessions, but make sure you get an unabridged version, as he has an interesting discussion of time that is often edited out of abridged versions.  But if you wanted an introduction to his views, probably you should go with The Enchiridion on Faith, Hope, and Love.  Both of those books are much shorter than his City of God, and they are more than tedious enough.  I doubt you will have the stomach for anything longer than those short books, and you may not have the stomach for them.

Just to be clear, I am not particularly recommending that you read those books.  If you want something actually good, you will want to read something from a different author.  If you want good books that deal with religion, I suggest David Hume's Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion or his Natural History of Religion.  The first deals with philosophical arguments regarding the existence of god and related matters, and the second is a history or prehistory of the development of religion.  David Hume was both a philosopher and historian.  His History of England was once very popular, though of course it does not cover anything that has happened in the past couple of hundred years; he died in 1776.

[robvalue]

I appreciate the recommendations, thanks

I'm afraid my brain is too addled to tackle anything too complicated or messy, otherwise I'd take you up on your offer. Maybe at a later date when my faculties hopefully improve, I'll get some ideas from you! I have other stuff I'm meant to be reading to help a friend, but it's hard getting the mental energy to be able to concentrate properly.

[Drich]

Dritch is in the unenviable position of understanding that freewill cannot exist in the presence of an all-knowing, omnipotent god, but having to believe that humans are responsible for their sin and deserve to go to hell for it.

No human brain can house such contradictory beliefs without going batty.

History has shown us that we do have limited freewill. Our actions are based on emotions, not logic. We have drives and urges and the limitations of our physical bodies. Still, we aren't all instinct. There is a part of us that can stand back  and decide whether to follow our drives and urges. Once we learn that we can do this, our actions will be based more and logic and we will have more freewill than those who just do what comes naturally. This is easier said than done, but, to varying degrees, we do have some control and are not slaves to anything we don't wish to be.

Lol, I guess you've never been forced acknoweledge an addiction before?

Nor have you ever gone off the grid.

If you had you know that every aspect of your current lifestyle binds you to a very narrow way of living. That's not to say you don't like living addicted to something nor does it mean you may want or give up your current life style. That's not makes you a slave. What makes you a slave is that you can with out loosing all that you are now.

A truly free man is not bound by consenquence, nor fear of loosing what he cherishes.

[dyresand]

If you have free will in heaven you will realize how shitty it is and get bored fairly fast. While you get the harp music pray and look down into hell
there is nothing really else. Mean while in hell you probably get metal music get tortured in various ways also since stuff in the bible is banned like adultry....
so massive orgies...well...... one of these places is looking a lot better than the other.