Understand the requirement for a scientific miracle.

[paulpablo]

I want to discuss things that Muslims who claim the quran has scientific miracles should consider.

1) If you're saying the verse is definitely revealing a specific scientific fact, then it should be the situation that the verse was not understood/believed before the scientific fact was understood/believed.

2) If there verse could reasonably be translated or interpreted to mean something not miraculous, then there's no proof the verse is miraculous.

3) If there's even a slight reasonable doubt that maybe people at the time could have obtained knowledge the verse was talking about, that also means there's no proof of a scientific miracle.

4) If there's even a slight reasonable doubt that the verse could coincidentally have predicted something, that means again there's no proof of a miracle.

5)  Is the verse actually even accurately describing the scientific fact in the first place?

I'll use some verses that have claimed to be scientific miracles to exemplify what I'm talking about.

[paulpablo]

(4:119) and shall lead them astray, and shall engross them in vain desires, and I shall command them and they will cut off the ears of the cattle,147 and I shall command them and they will disfigure Allah's creation.'

This verse is claimed to be a miracle because it predicts cloning.

So baring in mind the 5 points previously listed, only 2 need to be used.

1) Was this verse misunderstood before scientists understood cloning?  No because it was understood that cutting the ears of cattle was a superstitious Arabian custom.

2) Yes, it's easier to translate the verse to mean nothing at all to do with cloning, it's a stretch of the imagination to say it has anything to do with cloning.

[paulpablo]

“Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, then We separated them, and made from water every living thing?  Then will they not believe?” (Quran 21:30)

This verse is supposed to be talking about the big bang.
Ok now the only thing that needs to be considered for this is number 5. Does this verse even accurately describe the scientific fact to begin with?  If heavens means the universe and the big bang is supposed to be the separation between earth and the rest of the universe this makes no sense since the planet earth didn't pop into existence straight after the big bang, additionally it makes no sense anyway to say that the big bang is when the earth and the universe were separated, the earth is within the universe, the earth has never been clove asunder from the universe.  The quran description of the beginning of the universe in no way corresponds with what modern science says.

[paulpablo]

Yes, We are able to put together in perfect order the very tips of his fingers. (Qur'an, 75:4)

This verse is supposed to be a scientific miracle that predicts fingerprints, this is definitely easy to dismiss.
1) This verse was never understood to be about fingerprints to begin with, if fingerprints were not unique this verse wouldn't be proven wrong, fingerprints being unique doesn't prove the verse to be right, it simply has nothing to do with the verse.
3) People did have some knowledge about the observable uniqueness of fingerprints since ancient times anyway.
5) The verse is really meaningless, since technically there are many parts of the body that are just as unique as fingerprints only they are less observable or less easily used in criminal investigations.

[ReptilianPeon]

What about asking believers this question:
1. Are they are verses in the Quran that lead to a scientific discovery being made? Cue Hamza Tzortis and Zakir Naik making shit up on the spot.

2. Did Allah intend for the Quran to be a science book? Would science distract from the core message? (There are better ways Allah could prove there is a god then a few wishy-washy verses in an old book.