"The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us..." should we be grateful?

[Whateverist]

Fixed that for you (my underline).

Right on, nice way to misrepresent my quote.

Are you not amused?!

Seriously though it all depends on how you went about it.  If you seriously place yourself and your appraisal of what is true above that of your 'friends'

Oh come the fuck on dude. It's not just myself and my appraisal. It's the entire scientific world's appraisal. This was my entire fucking point. The laws of physics do not account for a man returning from the dead, or turning water to wine, or parting seas, or causing plagues. I'd say the same to you as I would to my friends, grow up. Likewise a tooth fairy existing is equally as unlikely. But if you're telling me you'd ignore the fact your "friend" would be stupid enough to believe such tripe, then I'm the one who should be questioning how much you value your "friends".

Well, beyond the literal dogma about genesis and resurrection and judgement and all that crap there are other understandings which motivate faith. Some recognize that evolution and biogenesis make more sense and see the resurrection as symbolic. But many more just don't dwell on the parts which cause all the cognitive dissonance and, like I say, it isn't the main thing they dwell on about religion. I guess the acceptance of the literal bits just bothers you more than it does me but I do note that it is changing. Plenty of Catholics see Genesis as a story and evolution as the literal truth. Many can accept big bangs and astronomy without a problem, though annoyingly feel the need to tack on fine tuning.

In my view, if there was a god that made everything he wouldn't need to race down brooming the ice to direct the kettle. He'd just fire it off right to begin with. Silly apologists.

In time I imagine Catholics will reconcile with all of science and leave science to the scientists. But I don't think that will undermine what is most important to them. So why push the river? It'll happen when it happens. If I need less silly friends that is on me to pick the right ones to begin with and not expect to fix them up afterwards.

it would seem that you haven't even granted them the status of "peer" let alone "friend".

To your limited understanding, yes.

No I get that you are confronting them precisely because you do see them as a peer. I just don't think you really get religion. I mean, you get the many ways it is done poorly and stupidly like the fundamentalists of every stripe, like you see so commonly in the US and in the middle east. But I really do think there is more to religion than you give it credit for. It is something over which reasonable human beings can disagree. Those less tolerant can go to Jihad I suppose.

[Napoléon]

^Crossless, this is also a great example of that imaginary translation of my words I was talking about.

"See what I'm dealing with" all of a sudden translates to... well, you can see it above. I won't repeat.

And just for the record, the only person here doing any misrepresenting is CL. 3 times no less:

http://atheistforums.org/thread-34779-po...#pid999822
http://atheistforums.org/thread-34779-po...#pid999851
http://atheistforums.org/thread-34779-po...#pid999731

Carry on trying to suk that dik CL.

[Napoléon]

But I really do think there is more to religion than you give it credit for.  

Damn, someone really did a number on you, huh.

[Catholic_Lady]

This thread has become a great example.

I hope all the people who accused me of being thin skinned and flying off the handle are reading what Napo is saying to me and how I am responding.

Even Min wrote me a kind PM just telling me hang in there and that I'm doing fine. That's when you know things are getting serious down in here. :-p

CL, I give you five gold stars for driving the conversations on these threads.  You always get a multitude of responses regardless of the topics and it certainly does a lot to keep people engaged.  You should get paid.

Lol. Thanks but I'm really not driving at all.

I'm just answering questions and clarifying false assertions of me. But I agree... I should get paid.

[Whateverist]

^Not sure why that was not an acceptable enough response for you.

Because it's just another nothing post where all you're doing is slurping down the dicks of people who you think respect you.

And if you paid more attention to your technique you'd get the same response.  

[Esquilax]

So are you saying we should still generalize all Christians as thinking gays are vile?

Not at all. I just find myself troubled by certain christians thinking "those people are in the minority," is an adequate response, when to an actual member of the LGBTQ community who grew up at the tail end of homophobia's social acceptability, it comes across as altogether too simplistic and trivial a response for a very real issue.

I'm glad that you don't share those views, and I don't think for a moment that you should be put in a position of having to defend them, but the way you put them out of your mind as if they're no big deal is a problem for guys like me who still find themselves shamed daily by those exact attitudes. Yes, a small percentage of christians find themselves swayed to homophobia by the bible now, but that wasn't always the case, and it certainly was not the bible that prompted this change. You guys had yourself dragged kicking and screaming into equality, and now many among you just want to just wipe away the tears from the tantrum and then act like it never happened at all. Well, sorry, but that kind of refusal to recognize the past leaves one dangerously close to repeating it, an act that we've seen time and again when fundamentalist movements are allowed to have their way by christians and secularists alike not seeing the threat and doing nothing.

[Whateverist]

But I really do think there is more to religion than you give it credit for.  

Damn, someone really did a number on you, huh.

Do you think that might account for the dreams I have where my penis has fallen off and I am afraid of misplacing it?

[Longhorn]

Great. You didn't say that at first and it sure didn't sound like it. Probably because 'be kind' *isn't* an opinion.

My apologies. Hopefully I have made it clear to you where I stand, despite my delay in writing IMHO.

You've made yourself perfectly clear. Have fun with that -_-

[Whateverist]

CL, I give you five gold stars for driving the conversations on these threads.  You always get a multitude of responses regardless of the topics and it certainly does a lot to keep people engaged.  You should get paid.

Lol. Thanks but I'm really not driving at all.

I'm just answering questions and clarifying false assertions of me. But I agree... I should get paid.

That's okay.  Nap and I are both rep whores.  We all get paid, honey.

[Catholic_Lady]

So are you saying we should still generalize all Christians as thinking gays are vile?

Not at all. I just find myself troubled by certain christians thinking "those people are in the minority," is an adequate response, when to an actual member of the LGBTQ community who grew up at the tail end of homophobia's social acceptability, it comes across as altogether too simplistic and trivial a response for a very real issue.

I'm glad that you don't share those views, and I don't think for a moment that you should be put in a position of having to defend them, but the way you put them out of your mind as if they're no big deal is a problem for guys like me who still find themselves shamed daily by those exact attitudes. Yes, a small percentage of christians find themselves swayed to homophobia by the bible now, but that wasn't always the case, and it certainly was not the bible that prompted this change. You guys had yourself dragged kicking and screaming into equality, and now many among you just want to just wipe away the tears from the tantrum and then act like it never happened at all. Well, sorry, but that kind of refusal to recognize the past leaves one dangerously close to repeating it, an act that we've seen time and again when fundamentalist movements are allowed to have their way by christians and secularists alike not seeing the threat and doing nothing.

Ah, gotcha. I agree, btw. I wasn't meaning to say we should just say "oh well, they're not very many people so whatever," and leave it at that.

That's not what I meant by that. I agree they need to have their beliefs regarding gay people challenged and criticized by Christians and non Christians a like. What I meant was I have never met one myself to do the criticizing. If I did meet one, I would definitely say something.