Atheism the unscientific belief (part one, two, and three)

[Lucanus]

If you mistreat your body it is obvious that also your consciousness will be affected.
It is like if you mistreat your vehicle.
How can you proceed with a damage vehicle?

But that's exactly the point! You can't proceed with a damaged vehicle because its function is correlated to its structure. Same for the brain: if it's damaged enough, it can't work ==> no consciousness!

What doesn't make sense is your guessing that if the brain die also the consciousness die.
There is anything thing that really die and disappear in this universe?
If you study physics you should know that nothing die or disappear so why the consciousness
should die and disappear?

Ok, you completely misunderstand the principle of conservation of mass and energy. In physics, what is conserved (doesn't die or disappear, in your words) is mass

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(that is, the atoms that compose the molecules that compose the cells that compose the tissues that compose the organs that compose your body)

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and energy

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(that is, the heat and the chemical energy produced by metabolism and the electrochemical gradients that make neurons and other cells work)

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.

What makes our brain work, and what ultimately produces our consciousness (since no matter how hard you wish, there is no evidence of consciousness existing outside of physical structures) is a pattern of energy and matter; more specifically it's a specific pattern of neurons firing electrical signals through their axons, forming synapses with other neurons, communicating and integrating signals from all parts of the body.

With death, this pattern ceases to exist: this does not mean that the matter and energies involved are destroyed. They dissipate and change form: the electrochemical gradients reach equilibrium, heat dissipates, and the very chemicals we use as a source of energy are eaten by the organisms that provide for our decomposition. Or, if you wanna go with a bang, all your chemical energy gets burned up in a cremation, and the matter that made up your body turns to ashes, vapour and cinder.

By the way the consciousness is not made of matter like the brain so how can something
abstract can be killed?

What is it made of? Can you cite some studies on the nature of consciousness that prove your point?

Mine is a believe not a claim.
My believe is that there is a very good reason why we can't remember our previous lives.
In this life we find difficult, annoying and frustration to think about our past mistakes and
bad thing that we have done.
At times we just think that would be better if we never done certain things but is too late.
The problem however is that we just can't get rid from our mind these things from the past.
It is a burden to us.
Now just imagine if on the top of our mistakes in this life we also have to deal with mistakes from previous lives and lives before that.
It would be an absolute hell that is why we are prevented from remember anything from previous lives.
Someone understand the problem therefore this entity prevent us from remembering.  

Beliefs are claims, Rik. By believing something (idk, say that Rocco Siffredi's dick is 30cm long) you *are* claiming that Rocco Siffredi's dick is indeed 30 cm long. And you can verify your beliefs by watching a movie with Rocco Siffredi and well... I think you get that.

The problems arise when you cling on to your beliefs even when they are proven to be false, or when (and it's even worse) you formulate your beliefs in ways that are impossible to verify or falsify. That is just childish intellectual dishonesty.

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Until you have proof, you're just making fun of others for not believing that dragons splooged on your homework.

You, sir, deserve a rep.

[Longhorn]

Rik, your fucking grammar alone warrants you the next life as a snail on a highway -_-

[Homeless Nutter]

If you mistreat your body it is obvious that also your consciousness will be affected.
[...]

I figured out what your problem is - your head is stuck so deep up your a*se, that your rectum has cut off the supply of blood to your brain. Be careful not to clench your bum, or you may snap your neck...

[Angrboda]

Little Rik did not lied.
He just took these information from some sources from the net
therefore he thought that these information were reliable therefore
no bad intentions were involved and no karma apply.
If someone point to me that these information were not reliable anymore
then too bad.
What all this has to do with lying only Santa knows.

*bzzzzzt* Wrong answer!

Maybe if you had actually read what I wrote you would have had a better answer.

If you didn't borrow it from someone else, then you should be able to spot the mistake I made in the following post without trying. If you can't tell me the error that I made in that post, then we'll know that you're lying and just parroting someone else's argument. So, Rik, what's the answer? What error did I make?

http://atheistforums.org/thread-24304-po...#pid639279

[Little Rik]

If you mistreat your body it is obvious that also your consciousness will be affected.
It is like if you mistreat your vehicle.
How can you proceed with a damage vehicle?
You can loose a lot of consciousness but you also can expand your consciousness
provided you treat your body-brain properly so your first point make sense.
What doesn't make sense is your guessing that if the brain die also the consciousness die.
There is anything thing that really die and disappear in this universe?
If you study physics you should know that nothing die or disappear so why the consciousness
should die and disappear?
By the way the consciousness is not made of matter like the brain so how can something
abstract can be killed?



Mine is a believe not a claim.
My believe is that there is a very good reason why we can't remember our previous lives.
In this life we find difficult, annoying and frustration to think about our past mistakes and
bad thing that we have done.
At times we just think that would be better if we never done certain things but is too late.
The problem however is that we just can't get rid from our mind these things from the past.
It is a burden to us.
Now just imagine if on the top of our mistakes in this life we also have to deal with mistakes from previous lives and lives before that.
It would be an absolute hell that is why we are prevented from remember anything from previous lives.
Someone understand the problem therefore this entity prevent us from remembering.  

Nice claims. Let's see some evidence.
Beliefs not claims, you say? A belief becomes a claim the moment you give it voice. You are making claims. Prove them.
You claim that the consciousness does not die when the brain does. That is a positive claim. Prove it.
You claim that reincarnation exists and is a thing that happens. That is a positive claim. Prove it.
You claim there is an entity with the power to wipe our memories between lives. That is a positive claim. Prove it.
Until you have proof, you're just making fun of others for not believing that dragons splooged on your homework.

Physically speaking we know that under the visible iceberg there is a bigger chunk of ice under the water.
Consciousness is like an iceberg.
We are aware of that part above but not of the part below.
We may understand that there is a bigger chunk below but as far as we can not make it part of ourselves
we just don't know what is all about.
This is your problem Pinky.
You are not interested in knowing what is behind the small amount of consciousness and yet you draw
conclusions based on that little that you know.
To expand our consciousness it takes a lot of hard work and that work is called spirituality.
Why should i make a claim with you about the consciousness that i am aware of when in fact all your knowledge is based on that little that you know.
It is obvious that you would reject the claim considering that your knowledge is based on the little and not on the big which lie under the outer mind.
That is why i say my believe and not my claim.
Consciousness is awareness of who you really are so by knowing who you really are you also know how the system works.
If you only would expand your consciousness you would automatically understand all these points but the
hard reality is that you don't  

Nice misappropriation of the Law of Conservation of Matter and Energy, by the way. You learn that from Deepak Chopra? Consciousness is the result of matter and energy, but it is not itself matter or energy. Consciousness is a process of the brain, and when the brain stops producing it, it stops happening. The matter and energy in the brain are still there, but they're no longer being used to generate consciousness. Nothing disappears, nothing is lost, and yet the process stops.


Once again you show that your knowledge about this issue is based 100% on physical science.
Consciousness is not something physical Pinky so how can physical science know where consciousness come from?
But let us proceed step by step.
First let me have a bit of fun.
You say that ..........Consciousness is the result of matter and energy
.......and at the same time you guys ridicule the idea that a rock is lacking or can not create consciousness.
The brain is made of matter also but according to you guys one type of matter can generate consciousness while an other type of matter can not.
Are you racist or what?  
You are just very funny.
A rock after million of years will turn into soil and feed plants, the plants will feed animals or humans so everything get transformed all the time physically speaking but what about the consciousness?
Animals have consciousness, plants too so why rocks don't have consciousness?
Where the consciousness start and where it stop then?
You guys put limits where limits don't make any sense.
Energy and consciousness always go hand in hand like the pages in sheet of paper.
Rocks got energy within so there got to be consciousness in it.
Your problem is that you do not understand that consciousness goes in degree which means
being more or less aware of who he-she is.
A rock has got the lowest degree of consciousness that is why t can not move or do anything so far.
Physical science is not really interested in knowing whether the energy goes hand in hand with consciousness so no wonder that people like you that rely 100% on physical science will never know how the system works.  

[Lucanus]

Nice claims. Let's see some evidence.
Beliefs not claims, you say? A belief becomes a claim the moment you give it voice. You are making claims. Prove them.
You claim that the consciousness does not die when the brain does. That is a positive claim. Prove it.
You claim that reincarnation exists and is a thing that happens. That is a positive claim. Prove it.
You claim there is an entity with the power to wipe our memories between lives. That is a positive claim. Prove it.
Until you have proof, you're just making fun of others for not believing that dragons splooged on your homework.

Physically speaking we know that under the visible iceberg there is a bigger chunk of ice under the water.
Consciousness is like an iceberg.
We are aware of that part above but not of the part below.
We may understand that there is a bigger chunk below but as far as we can not make it part of ourselves
we just don't know what is all about.
This is your problem Pinky.
You are not interested in knowing what is behind the small amount of consciousness and yet you draw
conclusions based on that little that you know.

Of course we make conclusions based on "what little we know"! Science is based on what we can observe and starts from observation to get to conclusions. The fact that science has not yet explained everything doesn't mean that every explanation is equally possible though. And we've seen through history that all supernatural explanations were wrong, while the reductionist/materialist explanations were better descriptions of reality.

To expand our consciousness it takes a lot of hard work and that work is called spirituality.

OK, what does it mean "to expand your consciousness "? What happens when you do? And what is spirituality? Is it repeatable and verifiable? If it isn't, it's BULLSHIT.

Why should i make a claim with you about the consciousness that i am aware of when in fact all your knowledge is based on that little that you know.
It is obvious that you would reject the claim considering that your knowledge is based on the little and not on the big which lie under the outer mind.

What even *is* " the big that lies under the outer mind"? How do you prove it's real? If you want to convince other people that your beliefs have some truth in them, then please explain the reasoning behind them!

That is why i say my believe and not my claim.
Consciousness is awareness of who you really are so by knowing who you really are you also know how the system works.
If you only would expand your consciousness you would automatically understand all these points but the
hard reality is that you don't  

This is word salad and doesn't even make sense in English.

Nice misappropriation of the Law of Conservation of Matter and Energy, by the way. You learn that from Deepak Chopra? Consciousness is the result of matter and energy, but it is not itself matter or energy. Consciousness is a process of the brain, and when the brain stops producing it, it stops happening. The matter and energy in the brain are still there, but they're no longer being used to generate consciousness. Nothing disappears, nothing is lost, and yet the process stops.

Once again you show that your knowledge about this issue is based 100% on physical science.
Consciousness is not something physical Pinky so how can physical science know where consciousness come from?

If consciousness is not something explainable by the laws of physics as we know them then FUCKING PROVE IT! Show us the evidence and we'll believe you!

But let us proceed step by step.
First let me have a bit of fun.
You say that ..........Consciousness is the result of matter and energy
.......and at the same time you guys ridicule the idea that a rock is lacking or can not create consciousness.
The brain is made of matter also but according to you guys one type of matter can generate consciousness while an other type of matter can not.
Are you racist or what?  
You are just very funny.

Ok Rik don't shit your pants, now I'm going to show you two images: one is an inert mineral with a rather simple chemical composition and structure, and another is a complex-as-shit network of highly specialised biotic structures. Do they look capable of doing the same things to you?

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A rock after million of years will turn into soil and feed plants, the plants will feed animals or humans so everything get transformed all the time physically speaking but what about the consciousness?
Animals have consciousness, plants too so why rocks don't have consciousness?

I can hear generations of geologists from all over the world turning and twisting inside of their graves. Rocks don't turn into soil. Soil comes from the decomposition of living matter. If anything, rocks turn into sand.

And consciousness depends on the capability of responding to external stimuli, which animals can do to a great extent, plants not so much but to a certain degree (and due to their lack of integration centres I wouldn't define them as conscious), and rocks don't because they're fucking rocks and not living organisms with a complex chemistry.

why am i doing this to myself?

Where the consciousness start and where it stop then?
You guys put limits where limits don't make any sense.

You know what? I'll plead guilty, guilty as charged! I always think there could be a limit to your stupidity but you always surprise me! Now, for your next treasure of scientific knowledge and logic:

Energy and consciousness always go hand in hand like the pages in sheet of paper.
Rocks got energy within so there got to be consciousness in it.
Your problem is that you do not understand that consciousness goes in degree which means
being more or less aware of who he-she is.
A rock has got the lowest degree of consciousness that is why t can not move or do anything so far.
Physical science is not really interested in knowing whether the energy goes hand in hand with consciousness so no wonder that people like you that rely 100% on physical science will never know how the system works.  

There's so much wrong with this that I don't even know where to start. Energy and consciousness don't always go hand in hand. Energy goes hand in hand with consciousness in the brain (and even then, considering that energy is transferred with the movement of ions and neurotransmitters, it is linked to specific structures of matter). It's not been proven to be elsewhere. If you think rocks have a degree of consciousness, again PROVE IT.

[Homeless Nutter]

[...]You say that ..........Consciousness is the result of matter and energy
.......and at the same time you guys ridicule the idea that a rock is lacking or can not create consciousness.
The brain is made of matter also but according to you guys one type of matter can generate consciousness while an other type of matter can not.[...]

Of course, you dummy. In the same way some matter - like metals - conducts electricity and yet other matter - like rubber - doesn't. What is so bloody difficult to understand?

 Also: consciousness - just like most phenomena occurring in the physical universe -  is not a property of matter itself but of the way that matter is organized/arranged. What are your computer's circuits made of? Sillicon. What is sand made of? Sillicon. So I guess by your "logic" - you can connect a pile of dirt to the internet, right? lol How do you even manage to function in the real world, seriously?


Now - as for your "consciousness lives forever" bullsh*t - light a candle. The flame is also a phenomenon - a result of particular arrangement of matter and energy. Now, put it out - where did the flame go? How is it possible that there is no more fire, since the matter and energy are still there? Is it going to come back on another candle? Or has  it gone to flame-heaven?  Huh, genius?  In a very similar way - once you "put out" consciousness (by damaging/destroying the arrangement of matter that allows it to exist/function) - it stops existing. Get over it.
 
I'm all balls. Suck'em.

[Ravenshire]

Liar. You post this smiley over and over, but you never listen to anyone.

Actually the problem is not with listening.
I do listen but i can't hear any one prove me wrong.
Where is the evidence that with the physical death everything is over?
And where is the evidence that the consciousness is a product of the brain?
Is not me that came up with these statements.
It is you guys that keep on saying and repeating at nauseum such a things
therefore it is you that got to come up with evidence.
I listen i listen but there is no evidence forthcoming so don't blame me for not listening.
But no worry mate.
Little bunny still wait for your evidence.
Even when i go to sleep little bunny is awake in case you guys finally decide
to come up with solid evidence regarding your statements. 

You can't even keep straight who you're talking to. I never made any of those statements you simpleton. But, when you made the claim that water always joins up to make larger bodies, I pointed out evaporation. You promptly ignored this. When you asked for an instance of rivers not joining oceans, I gave you the Colorado River, dry wash for much of it's last 50 miles or so of riverbed. This too was promptly ignored. You claim we present no evidence when it's you dismissing it out of hand, without consideration. That makes you liar every time you claim "" because you're not.

[Ravenshire]

You are not interested in knowing what is behind the small amount of consciousness and yet you draw conclusions based on that little that you know.

Unlike you who draws conclusions in the complete absence of knowledge.

[Mudhammam]

There is anything thing that really die and disappear in this universe?
If you study physics you should know that nothing die or disappear so why the consciousness
should die and disappear?
By the way the consciousness is not made of matter like the brain so how can something
abstract can be killed?

Uh, yeah, there are things that "really die and disappear." That's why it's called death. Pythagoras... really dead. Cecil the lion... really dead. Plants, animals, and even people really do die (go to a cemetery and try speaking with them if you don't believe me)! Like anything that changes, life and death are a process of change, analogous to buildings that crumble and are there no longer: have you seen the Forum in ancient Rome lately? "Where did it go?" you might ask yourself. Or take memories, which fade and are forever forgotten. Where are they? Yesterday sinks into the oblivion of the past. Can you get that back? No. Why? Because these are all different kinds of death, and have dissolved and changed into other things. Like others have said, the generation and destruction of these various modes of being have nothing to do with the conservation of mass and energy - that is not lost just because the structures they form are. I don't have the slightest clue how it is that abstract objects, or the sensation of being a unique individual, are borne from the mechanisms of a brain, but I see neither reason nor possibility for suggesting that these can persist "out there," in the world, when the only knowledge and experience of them is "in here," and "in here," as in the case of time preceding one's birth, is nowhere, nada, nil.

Mine is a believe not a claim.
My believe is that there is a very good reason why we can't remember our previous lives.
In this life we find difficult, annoying and frustration to think about our past mistakes and
bad thing that we have done.
At times we just think that would be better if we never done certain things but is too late.
The problem however is that we just can't get rid from our mind these things from the past.
It is a burden to us.
Now just imagine if on the top of our mistakes in this life we also have to deal with mistakes from previous lives and lives before that.
It would be an absolute hell that is why we are prevented from remember anything from previous lives.
Someone understand the problem therefore this entity prevent us from remembering.  

What's the difference between a belief and a claim? That we can disregard the former as a statement empty of epistemic content, and symptomatic of ignorance and superstition, while the latter purports to be derived from a sound basis in the facts of experience and supportable by demonstration or testable hypotheses? Okay then, fine, I agree.

Your previous life? Did you drink from the River of Forgetfulness after passing the throne of Lady Necessity and the Plane of Oblivion as in Plato's Myth of Er too?