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RE: atheism and children
August 10, 2015 at 5:07 pm
(August 10, 2015 at 5:05 pm)Exian Wrote: Those are the types of theists that make me happy to be an atheist. In those conversation I will settle into a strong atheist stance gladly, just for spite and to scratch that itch.
Cath and King don't strike me as these types though. Some proselytize because they are worried for your soul, and others do it because they are worried for their own (aka douchebags). Cath and King are neither, and have been very respectful and down right pleasent with our discourse.
Love you guys 
I can't speak for CL, but I'm sure she would join me in saying we love you guys too and truly appreciate the genuine and respectful discussions we have. You could downright attack us, and while our discussions may even get heated and invoke emotions, they are at the bottom very genuine and ultimately respectful.
We are not made happy by what we acquire but by what we appreciate.
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RE: atheism and children
August 10, 2015 at 5:12 pm
(August 10, 2015 at 4:43 pm)Exian Wrote: You know what I just realized, and this is silly, but I've been an atheist for so long that I completely forgot about the idea of the soul, and the role that plays on what you might consider sacred when it comes to life and reproduction. I see life as an organism that is able to reproduce/replicate, and I see no difference in a life created by sexual intercourse and a life created with IVF. To help you understand, I see human reproduction how you might see animal reproduction. There's no discernible difference in the material world.
I wonder now, if you see a person born by IVF as soulless, and is that the missing ingredient I mentioned earlier? (Here's an extra funny bit- if you do consider people born through IVF as soulless, I would somehow find that kind of insulting, even though I consider everybody soulless hahaha)
Lol, absolutely NOT. Haha. Like I said, how a person was conceived has no bearing on them whatsoever. I agree, that would be extremely insulting if I did.
But you are correct on your first paragraph. Reproduction of human life is tremendously sacred because it not only creates a body, but an eternal soul as well.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: atheism and children
August 10, 2015 at 5:13 pm
(August 10, 2015 at 4:57 pm)Pandæmonium Wrote: (August 10, 2015 at 4:43 pm)Exian Wrote: You know what I just realized, and this is silly, but I've been an atheist for so long that I completely forgot about the idea of the soul, and the role that plays on what you might consider sacred when it comes to life and reproduction. I see life as an organism that is able to reproduce/replicate, and I see no difference in a life created by sexual intercourse and a life created with IVF. To help you understand, I see human reproduction how you might see animal reproduction. There's no discernible difference in the material world.
I wonder now, if you see a person born by IVF as soulless, and is that the missing ingredient I mentioned earlier? (Here's an extra funny bit- if you do consider people born through IVF as soulless, I would somehow find that kind of insulting, even though I consider everybody soulless hahaha)
It's because of the insinuation and de-humanization of people. Thats all these religions ultimately seek to do, to strip people of their humanity and accuse them of being less than worthy. What was it Hitch said, born sick and commanded to be well?
Similar to when they say people will go to hell. The hell bit is of course nonsense, but it's the almost gleeful way they stroke their ego at the misfortune of others and their belief in being right at all costs, even if that misfortune is entirely make believe. It gives them a justification to be cruel and believe in cruel things.
Wow, I hope you're not applying this to me.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: atheism and children
August 10, 2015 at 5:13 pm
Having heated discussions is actually fairly new to me, and something I learned to be ok with since joining AF. It was a shock to me, but I quickly learned the benefit of it. Often times, tip-toeing to avoid tension will also cause you to avoid the meat of a conversation.
I can't remember where this verse is from, I think it got removed from canon:
"I don't hang around with mostly men because I'm gay. It's because men are better than women. Better trained, better equipped...better. Just better! I'm not gay."
For context, this is the previous verse:
"Hi Jesus" -robvalue
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RE: atheism and children
August 10, 2015 at 5:15 pm
(August 10, 2015 at 5:05 pm)Exian Wrote: Those are the types of theists that make me happy to be an atheist. In those conversation I will settle into a strong atheist stance gladly, just for spite and to scratch that itch.
Cath and King don't strike me as these types though. Some proselytize because they are worried for your soul, and others do it because they are worried for their own (aka douchebags). Cath and King are neither, and have been very respectful and down right pleasent with our discourse.
Love you guys
I just wanna say I really like you and am really impressed, grateful, and humbled by how respectful and genuine you have been.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: atheism and children
August 10, 2015 at 5:19 pm
(August 10, 2015 at 5:13 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (August 10, 2015 at 4:57 pm)Pandæmonium Wrote: It's because of the insinuation and de-humanization of people. Thats all these religions ultimately seek to do, to strip people of their humanity and accuse them of being less than worthy. What was it Hitch said, born sick and commanded to be well?
Similar to when they say people will go to hell. The hell bit is of course nonsense, but it's the almost gleeful way they stroke their ego at the misfortune of others and their belief in being right at all costs, even if that misfortune is entirely make believe. It gives them a justification to be cruel and believe in cruel things.
Wow, I hope you're not applying this to me.
I apply it equally to anyone who has wacky beliefs that attempt to dehumanize the other for no other reason than '[deity]/[religion]/[political philosophy] told me'. So if that's you, then yes.
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RE: atheism and children
August 10, 2015 at 5:21 pm
(This post was last modified: August 10, 2015 at 5:22 pm by Exian.)
I'm pretty cool.
ETA: Hahaha I couldn't leave it at just that. I'm not that cocky and you don't know how jokes go over online. I like you too Cath. 
I can't remember where this verse is from, I think it got removed from canon:
"I don't hang around with mostly men because I'm gay. It's because men are better than women. Better trained, better equipped...better. Just better! I'm not gay."
For context, this is the previous verse:
"Hi Jesus" -robvalue
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RE: atheism and children
August 10, 2015 at 5:22 pm
(August 10, 2015 at 5:21 pm)Exian Wrote: I'm pretty cool.
We are not made happy by what we acquire but by what we appreciate.
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RE: atheism and children
August 10, 2015 at 5:33 pm
The guy has a rock crusher under his supervision. How much cooler do you want to get...
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: atheism and children
August 10, 2015 at 5:36 pm
(August 10, 2015 at 5:12 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (August 10, 2015 at 4:43 pm)Exian Wrote: You know what I just realized, and this is silly, but I've been an atheist for so long that I completely forgot about the idea of the soul, and the role that plays on what you might consider sacred when it comes to life and reproduction. I see life as an organism that is able to reproduce/replicate, and I see no difference in a life created by sexual intercourse and a life created with IVF. To help you understand, I see human reproduction how you might see animal reproduction. There's no discernible difference in the material world.
I wonder now, if you see a person born by IVF as soulless, and is that the missing ingredient I mentioned earlier? (Here's an extra funny bit- if you do consider people born through IVF as soulless, I would somehow find that kind of insulting, even though I consider everybody soulless hahaha)
Lol, absolutely NOT. Haha. Like I said, how a person was conceived has no bearing on them whatsoever. I agree, that would be extremely insulting if I did.
But you are correct on your first paragraph. Reproduction of human life is tremendously sacred because it not only creates a body, but an eternal soul as well.
So that brings it back to just being about the act. Also, it brings it back to me not knowing the difference. Haha
As far as I'm concerned, if your church doesn't treat people born through means other than lovemaking differently or think less of them, then it doesn't matter to me what you believe. However, I think your fellow Catholics who have troubles conceiving should have that option, and I feel bad for them for the battle they will have ahead of them in trying to conceive.
Do you know of cases where a catholic couple has tried to have a child through other means when knocking boots doesn't work? I know the church looks down on it, but what does the church do after a couple has already gone through with it?
I can't remember where this verse is from, I think it got removed from canon:
"I don't hang around with mostly men because I'm gay. It's because men are better than women. Better trained, better equipped...better. Just better! I'm not gay."
For context, this is the previous verse:
"Hi Jesus" -robvalue
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