Hello, i am a real Christian

[Darwinian]

Same here, on both counts

[Atheist_named_Christian]

Im off to sleep (i live in the UK) so dont think ive given up

I already thought that your believes are worth less than one night of sleep

[tavarish]

Oh oh - I would have never thought that TC's statement would be so easy to disprove...

Actually, there is no proof there of correlation between the fact that the are atheists and that they give more to charity. There are thousands of reasons that could explain that, for example their culture as a country.

Lets look at your reasoning :

-Sweden has a lot of atheists
-Sweden gives a lot to charity
-Atheists give a lot to charity

That's just illogical.

And you're missing the point completely.

It is a refutation of your argument: "religious people are more enclined to engage in charity because of their beliefs."

I'm not saying atheists are necessarily charitable, I'm saying that your assertion of religious people being more likely to donate doesn't hold any weight if it follows that the nations with the most religious people should be the most charitable.

In the top ten donating nations categorized by GNI, 9 have majority (> 50%) atheist/non-believer populations. This is a direct refutation that religious people are necessarily more altruistic than non-religious - that's all. I never said that the altruism was a result of their non-belief, I just contend that religion is not a necessary part of the equation, and the facts agree with me.

[theVOID]

Perfectly said Tarv

[Minimalist]

3) Roman Persecution of Christians

Actually, Darwinian....that seems to be something of an exaggeration.

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/persecutions.html

The Roman Empire lasted more than a thousand years and persecuted Christians for fewer than twelve of them. The 'Christian Empire' also lasted more than a thousand years and persecuted non-Christians through all of them.

Until the early years of the 2nd century, Roman administrators were ignorant of the existence of the Christians. For a generation that followed they remained indifferent to this obscure 'Jewish' sect (and its many different factions) but, in time, this indifference gave way to contempt and then irritation.

[Godscreated]

Alright i guess i did not explain myself well enough. What i meant by saying atheists are disillusioned is that they have simply given up altogether on religion because they dont see evidence for it. However there is evidence in the form of the Gospels, the teachings of Jesus.
Accepting the Gospels is a choice, but i find that many atheists only base their hatred of religion on what its excesses have done, and refuse to see the good that has come out of it because it their minds, no matter what, they start with the presumption that religion is bad. So no matter what anyone say they will always read with this presumption.

Finally i am NOT cherry picking. Christianity is based on the Christ, hence the name. I reject the Old Testament altogether and accept the Gospels altogether. This is not cherry picking.

And to clarify on me being a "true christian". By that i mean that i base my faith on the Christ, hence the Gospels, and not the Old Testament.

OK I got this far and now need to say a few things to you. By disregarding the OT,tell me about sin and why it's nessesary for Christs death on a cross. If christian moral values do not exist because the OT is just a fairytale then where did they come from. Tell the other christians who do not believe as you do why Christ quoted from the OT as much as HE did. Christ is the creator this is a statement made in the NT yet you cherry picked past that one by saying you are an evolutionist. By rejecting the OT you must reject the NT and Christ they go hand in hand. The OT is a foretelling of Christ so how is it you can dismiss that. I do not remember who asked you the question about dismissing the miracles of the OT and excepting the miracles of NT the same God performed them all. You said you had not explained yourself well enough with this I agree IMO you are a follower of what you see as the good in the NT and not a believer in who Christ really is. Have you ever studied the OT? Have you ever taken and broken it down and searched for real truth in it? Have you ever used the old Hebrew and the Greek to seach out connections between the OT and NT? Have you ever referrenced verse that seem to make no sense with other verses to try and make sense of those passages if not then if you are the christian you claim to be you need to get busy before you dismiss any of Gods Bible.

I am guessing that part or all of these questions have already been put forward I just needed to put in my two cents worth at this time.

[Darwinian]

OOh, inter-christian squabbles

I think this is a good example of the differences between a liberal and a fundamentalist Christian..

[True Christian]

Oh oh - I would have never thought that TC's statement would be so easy to disprove...

Actually, there is no proof there of correlation between the fact that the are atheists and that they give more to charity. There are thousands of reasons that could explain that, for example their culture as a country.

Lets look at your reasoning :

-Sweden has a lot of atheists
-Sweden gives a lot to charity
-Atheists give a lot to charity

That's just illogical.

And you're missing the point completely.

It is a refutation of your argument: "religious people are more enclined to engage in charity because of their beliefs."

I'm not saying atheists are necessarily charitable, I'm saying that your assertion of religious people being more likely to donate doesn't hold any weight if it follows that the nations with the most religious people should be the most charitable.

In the top ten donating nations categorized by GNI, 9 have majority (> 50%) atheist/non-believer populations. This is a direct refutation that religious people are necessarily more altruistic than non-religious - that's all. I never said that the altruism was a result of their non-belief, I just contend that religion is not a necessary part of the equation, and the facts agree with me.

These 10 top giving countries are also ALL european countries, are mostly northern countries (high life expectancy and education), and are all countries with a rich population. This is much more likely the cause for their generous behaviour than the fact that they are religious or not.

These numbers are not relevant. However in terms of simple case by case basis, a person is more enclined to have a certain behaviour if they believe it to be holy and sacred.

Why is it so hard for atheists to concede there is at least ONE thing good with religion ?

---

Alright i guess i did not explain myself well enough. What i meant by saying atheists are disillusioned is that they have simply given up altogether on religion because they dont see evidence for it. However there is evidence in the form of the Gospels, the teachings of Jesus.
Accepting the Gospels is a choice, but i find that many atheists only base their hatred of religion on what its excesses have done, and refuse to see the good that has come out of it because it their minds, no matter what, they start with the presumption that religion is bad. So no matter what anyone say they will always read with this presumption.

Finally i am NOT cherry picking. Christianity is based on the Christ, hence the name. I reject the Old Testament altogether and accept the Gospels altogether. This is not cherry picking.

And to clarify on me being a "true christian". By that i mean that i base my faith on the Christ, hence the Gospels, and not the Old Testament.

OK I got this far and now need to say a few things to you. By disregarding the OT,tell me about sin and why it's nessesary for Christs death on a cross. If christian moral values do not exist because the OT is just a fairytale then where did they come from. Tell the other christians who do not believe as you do why Christ quoted from the OT as much as HE did. Christ is the creator this is a statement made in the NT yet you cherry picked past that one by saying you are an evolutionist. By rejecting the OT you must reject the NT and Christ they go hand in hand. The OT is a foretelling of Christ so how is it you can dismiss that. I do not remember who asked you the question about dismissing the miracles of the OT and excepting the miracles of NT the same God performed them all. You said you had not explained yourself well enough with this I agree IMO you are a follower of what you see as the good in the NT and not a believer in who Christ really is. Have you ever studied the OT? Have you ever taken and broken it down and searched for real truth in it? Have you ever used the old Hebrew and the Greek to seach out connections between the OT and NT? Have you ever referrenced verse that seem to make no sense with other verses to try and make sense of those passages if not then if you are the christian you claim to be you need to get busy before you dismiss any of Gods Bible.

I am guessing that part or all of these questions have already been put forward I just needed to put in my two cents worth at this time.

No i do not thing the same God produced the miracles from the OT and the NT. I believe the Hebrew religion is basically the same one asthe Greek or Egyptian "religions": a series of stories passed down from generation to generation and trying to explain the complex world in which they primitive people lived in. The God of the OT has a "chosen people" and pretty much kills everybody else.

However i believe that Jeuss, to be taken seriously, only could make his "new religion" (which is actually, to me, the one and only true religion) on the basis of old ones. What he basically said is "some of your rules are in accordance with God's will. However, this is how things are".
Also if Jesus' message was that much in agreement with the old religion, why would the High Priests plot to kill him ?

[TheMultiverseTheory]

There is no such thing as a "true christian". In order to be one, you have to pretty much kill yourself as it is essentially the same as dividing by 0. The surplus of contradictions, the utter lack of critical thinking involved, the laws you need to follow that do not apply in the modern world.

Stone unbelievers to death.
Spit on the blind/deaf/dumb for being sinners simply because of their condition.
Follow the New AND Old Testament as required of you by Jesus.
Murder your children.
Hate your family.
Not allowed divorce (if female)
Murder homosexuals.
Constantly decree war.
Act ONLY according to laws of the bible (Free Will is strictly forbidden)
Be poor.
Not go to doctors and ONLY rely on prayer.
Start pedo'ing it up.
Rape people.
Burn pagans and Harry Potter fans.
Go against Women's Rights.
Be a terrorist.
Own slaves.
No longer eat anything aquatic that does not have "fins and scales"
etc
etc
etc

Can you really commit to this? I doubt it. So you're not a TRUE Christian.

[Atheist_named_Christian]

These 10 top giving countries are also ALL european countries, are mostly northern countries (high life expectancy and education), and are all countries with a rich population. This is much more likely the cause for their generous behaviour than the fact that they are religious or not.

Which shows yet another fact that most of us already knew - that good education is not accordable with believe. However it also shows, that non-believers are NOT giving less to charity. So it is clearly proving you wrong (unless you claim, that only the believing minorities in these countries are in fact donating, which could also be disproven for sure).