Atheism Doen't Equal Depression

[Thumpalumpacus]

Gee, I was hoping GC would STFU and leave the thread as promised, so that the adults could talk.

[Ravenshire]

My op is a statement that atheism does not cause people to be depressed. Why would you come in talking about all the depressed atheists you have "observed" and calling me wrong if you were not trying to insinuate that atheism does cause depression?   Perhaps you want to back away from that stance. The best way to do that is to make a clear, unambiguous, unequivocal statement that you do NOT believe that atheism causes depression. Short of that, no amount of backpedaling and obfuscation will change the way your statements are being construed.

Yes the results of atheism can cause depression, just as the results of people who do not know how to live their Christian lives can cause depression, I have nothing to back off from, I gave an opinion to start with, have made it clear that what I said was an opinion and if those here want to cry go ahead it's no skin off my teeth. I've read none of the other posts and will read no more of your's. Whateverist is the only one I'll read if he decides to post to me.

GC

You gonnna take you're ball and go home GC? Please?

[Brakeman]

Christianity does more to help people in need around the world in one year than atheist have in all history, we bring food and water to multi-millions of people that other wise would receive no help period. The moneys we give for missions to help others could never be made up by atheist. I've known Christians who have personally taken it upon themselves to send box car loads of food and medicine Haiti and accompany them there to make sure the goods got into the hands of those who needed them, all this at their own personal expense, this is just one very small example that's going on with the Christian community daily. The three largest relief organizations in the world are Christian and do more for people than any one country in the world, they are always first on the scene of disasters bringing in vital supplies and they do it better than anyone else and without tax dollars, we take these things upon ourselves. Tis doesn't even to begin to explain what we do in our communities, let's see atheist match what we willing give for others.

GC

No, Christians are not donating out of common compassion and empathy as are the atheists. Christians are simply INVESTING! They are either investing in trying to convince more people to join their club and start giving their 10 percent OR they are investing in their perceived retirement fund in heaven where they are expecting greater rewards.

Atheists know they won't be compensated with either comrades or rewards. They are not like the christians that require strings attached to everything they do.

[Rhondazvous]

Argument by mere assertion is all religious people can do. That's what their entire holy scripture is, assertion.

It works like this: Any assertion that supports their belief is true. Any argument that challenges their belief is false.

It's not about what the scripture says. It's about what the ruling authority says the scripture says.

[Rhondazvous]

I pity those who cannot find meaning in life without needing someone else to give it to them.

Christians insist that I can't be happy without god, but I don't give anyone the power to make that determination for my life, so it means nothing beyond what they need to believe.

[Rhondazvous]

Just stay out of my conversations none of what you said about me and what I said is true, you're an outright liar. This is all I have to say to you, a person who holds a grudge against all Christians because he can't get along with his dad, that's not my fault, you need to get over it and live a normal life, if that's possible by now.

GC

Could you go ahead and explain how I'm "an outright liar"?  What did I say that is untrue??  What are you talking about my dad for?  What does my dad have to do with anything??  Have you finally lost your mind??  

First things first you crazy old man, defend your accusation and explain how my post makes me a liar.

What do you mean, "finally?" He hasn't changed in any way that I can see.

[Rhondazvous]

Gee, I was hoping GC would STFU and leave the thread as promised, so that the adults could talk.

Guess we're our of luck.

[Rhondazvous]

Christianity does more to help people in need around the world in one year than atheist have in all history, we bring food and water to multi-millions of people that other wise would receive no help period. The moneys we give for missions to help others could never be made up by atheist. I've known Christians who have personally taken it upon themselves to send box car loads of food and medicine Haiti and accompany them there to make sure the goods got into the hands of those who needed them, all this at their own personal expense, this is just one very small example that's going on with the Christian community daily. The three largest relief organizations in the world are Christian and do more for people than any one country in the world, they are always first on the scene of disasters bringing in vital supplies and they do it better than anyone else and without tax dollars, we take these things upon ourselves. Tis doesn't even to begin to explain what we do in our communities, let's see atheist match what we willing give for others.

GC

No, Christians are not donating out of common compassion and empathy as are the atheists. Christians are simply INVESTING! They are either investing in trying to convince more people to join their club and start giving their 10 percent OR they are investing in their perceived retirement fund in heaven where they are expecting greater rewards.

Atheists know they won't be compensated with either comrades or rewards. They are not like the christians that require strings attached to everything they do.

Like the Africans say, "They came to our land with their bibles and taught us to pray with our eyes closed. When we opened our eyes, we had their bibles and they had our land."

[MTL]

By no means do I think Religion is the ONLY problem in the world;

But it is one of the biggest causes of trouble;

and it is far and away the most UNNECESSARY and completely avoidable source of trouble in the world.

Religion has always been one of the biggest causes of corruption, abuse, oppression and war...

...what do you mean why is it causing my problem?

You haven't a religious belief so I still do not see why you're blaming religion. What are Christians doing today to cause you to be depressed or the Muslims or any other. The things going on are by murderous animals, sexually sick and the down right selfishness and love of one's on self. If I'm not mistaken the religions of the world condemn these things, just because someone wants to attach a religious name to a crime doesn't mean that particular religion is guilty of any thing.

GC

You know, GC,

I just read one of those little motivational wise quotes, today, online...

It said,

" Never waste your time trying to explain anything to people who are committed to misunderstanding. "

I think that quote will probably pop into my head quite frequently, in this forum.

I have zero patience with people who know exactly what I'm talking about
and knowingly abuse forums that are intended for intelligent discussion,
with people who would be delighted to talk reasonably with them,
for the purposes of deliberate misunderstanding, gratuitous hairsplitting, or downright antagonism...

...either that,
or who are so oblivious to the obvious,
that it's impossible to tell the difference.

Furthermore, one of the most diabolically evil things that occurs in this world on a daily basis
is people who not only do heinous things,

but then try to convince their victims that THEY, the victim,
is in fact the aggressor;
and that everything bad that happened is, in fact,
the fault of the victim.

GC, you said,

" You haven't a religious belief so I still do not see why you're blaming religion. What are Christians doing today to cause you to be depressed or the Muslims or any other. "

This inexcusably clueless statement is the crux of why so many Atheists and Agnostics dislike religion.

Because it is diametrically inaccurate to say that,

because I don't have a religious belief, myself,
that therefore religion should not bother me,

and here is why:

If religion was not so codependent and controlling in the world...

...full of sanctimonious and often hypocritical individuals or organizations,
on either a trivial or on a grand scale,
who CANNOT seem to bring themselves to just let people live their lives
without attempting to impose THEIR dogma-based morals
onto people who do not believe the same as they do,
either by mere vocal moralizing, or by personal, social, or political manipulation,
or by downright military oppression or even terrorism...

....then I wouldn't have any real problem with religion.

But they do.  And so I have a problem with it.

Every time they oppose gay marriage, for example,
they impose THEIR morals onto people
who are NOT trying to impose anything on them.

Further to that, to add grievous insult to injury,

Religion then tries to paint it as if the opposite were true...which you yourself just did:

You said,

" The things going on are by murderous animals, sexually sick and the down right selfishness and love of one's on self. If I'm not mistaken the religions of the world condemn these things "

Look, GC, I would never,
not even for one second,
claim that Theists are the ONLY ones who do depraved things.

There are both good people who are Atheists,
and bad people who are Atheists,

and there are both good people who are Theists,
and also bad people who are Theists.

But what I object to is this:

Theists refusing to acknowledge that many of the heinous things done in the name of Religion
would not have existed BUT for the Religion
...and since the Religion cannot be proven to be at all necessary or true,
that those heinous things were entirely avoidable;

I also object to Theists who continue to consent to be members of a Religion in whose name heinous acts were done,
thinking it is okay as long as they condemn the "misguided" members of their Religion who committed the heinous acts
...all the while refusing to acknowledge that if their Religion were truly divine,
it would have been uncorruptable in the first place;

I also object to Theists thinking only CERTAIN acts done in the name of their Religion are heinous,
but other acts...which are still heinous...are actually not only okay, but are even commendable.

For example,

A Christian man "Bob" might condemn a "misguided" fellow Christian man "Sam", for shooting a Muslim,

...yet Bob thinks it is absolutely acceptable, even laudable:

...to use his own freedom
to try to manipulate the laws
in a free country...

...to the end of limiting the rights
of the gay couple who live next door to him,
to prevent them from marrying...

...even if that very gay couple are in the military
and, themselves,
have fought to protect HIS (Bob's) own freedom...

...his freedom to vote,
to speak freely...

...and to protect his freedom of Religion.

That is deplorable hypocrisy.

But it gets still worse:

Religion fails, again and again, to take ownership of the fact
that its very nature fosters, and even creates some of the evils
that it professes, not only to condemn,
but blames non-religious sources for,
when it is, in fact,
often the very absence of Religion that is the reason for the absence of that particular evil.

Example:  Josh Duggar has recently been figuratively pilloried for sexual assault and infidelity,
despite his supposedly devout upbringing and lifestyle.

This news is not surprising to Agnostics like myself;
I see it as a direct parallel to what we've seen of child abuse in the Catholic church at the hands of celibate priests.

I think it was simply the overall failings of Religion to find strength in things more reliable than prayer,
to find truth, real truth, in what has been researched and proven,
rather than what is unsubstantiated and professed in a book...

...a book that is passed off as Divine yet seems to require translation,
a process in which meaning in a single verse can vary wildly,
and can apparently still be endlessly and disastrously misinterpreted to an horrifying degree.

Of course I acknowledge that an Atheist can become an abuser;

but I don't shrink, whatsoever, from postulating that many abusers in the Church (any church)
might not have turned out to have become abusers at all,
had it not been for their Religion.

you heard me correctly:

I DON'T say that Religion causes ALL abuse,

but I do postulate that a significant amount of abuse would never have happened,
had it not been for the existence of Religion.

So many Theists try to assert that it is homosexuality that is the perversion;
but there are also many abusers who are NOT homosexual, at all...but they're still abusers.

I postulate that much of the abuse...
...of a homosexual inclination...
...that occurred in the Church...
occurred more because of unhealthy psychological damage
from unnecessary Religious repression and shaming,

...than it did because the homosexual in question was already inclined to be an abuser.

in other words,

yes, I certainly acknowledge there might be homosexuals
(as well as straight people)
in the church,
who would have become abusers,
REGARDLESS of their Religion;

BUT I think that if Religion had never taught unsubstantiated nonsense
about how homosexuality is a "sin" in the first place,
many of those repressed abusers might have NOT become abusers,

...but healthy, balanced, trustworthy men able to live openly as homosexuals,
without risking alienation, shame, or self-loathing.

I basically feel comfortable postulating that many abusers, in the Church,
....especially, but not exclusively, those of a homosexual inclination...
would NEVER have become abusers in the first place,
had their sexuality not been treated as aberration by the Church.

It is due to the shaming, misinformation, internal conflict and psychological damage
that Religion inflicts on so many NORMAL homosexuals...as well as STRAIGHT men, like Josh Duggar....

...that results in sexual perversion (like molestation of minors, sexual assaults, porn addiction or infidelity)
breaking out in some weird form.

So, YES:  Abusers absolutely can and do exist, without religion,
whether gay or straight,

but Religion, IMO,
CAUSES abusers to occur where they would NOT have,
in many cases
...gay, or straight.

[Rhondazvous]

The only reason Christians are here at all is because AF doesn't have a rule against devious idiocy. But if there were such a rule, all those suckers would have to go.

What they do doesn't even qualify as bullshit. It's just chicken shit.

Maybe AF could put a warning label on all posts by Christians: Ship High In Transit.