Anti gay-marriage atheist??

[Salacious B. Crumb]

I think my daughter always brings up a good point about gays going to hell:

"How the fuck am I going to hell for having sex with other girls to receive the same punishment as Hitler who killed six million people.  That doesn't sound like a just god.  In fact, just for not believing in god -- I'll be sent to hell, while if Hitler repented before he killed himself, he could wind up in heaven.  How am I as bad as Hitler?  Or Pol Pot?  Just because I like girls, and don't believe in a god that would do that to me.  It just doesn't make any sense,"

Common sense reasoning, too bad religitards can't see it. I'm glad that you're not like drfuzzy's parents that disowned her for being complete loons, in believing such nonsense. That's good that you can respect your child for who they are, and don't hold her to such moronic standards. Kudos for being a non-judgmental parent, and having the common sense to see that she is doing nothing wrong.

[rexbeccarox]

C_L, I know you're not responding to Javaman, but you and I are on good terms, and I wouldn't mind an answer to his question about the RCC spending millions to prevent SSM...

[Catholic_Lady]

C_L, I know you're not responding to Javaman, but you and I are on good terms, and I wouldn't mind an answer to his question about the RCC spending millions to prevent SSM...

Sure, Becca. 

Can you post about exactly what the RCC did so I know we are on the same page? I'm not entirely sure I know what you are referring to.

[rexbeccarox]

C_L, I know you're not responding to Javaman, but you and I are on good terms, and I wouldn't mind an answer to his question about the RCC spending millions to prevent SSM...

Sure, Becca. 

Can you post about exactly what the RCC did so I know we are on the same page? I'm not entirely sure I know what you are referring to.

Here's a start:

http://www.hrc.org/nomexposed/section/th...e-equality

[Catholic_Lady]

Sure, Becca. 

Can you post about exactly what the RCC did so I know we are on the same page? I'm not entirely sure I know what you are referring to.

Here's a start:

http://www.hrc.org/nomexposed/section/th...e-equality

Ok, here's how I feel about the issue. 

I believe marriage is more than a piece of government paper that 2 people sign. I believe the actual state of being married is one that extends beyond the government and beyond this world.... it's a spiritual union. This spiritual union is something that does not and cannot happen unless it's between one man and one woman who love each other and make the vow to be together for life.  

So if you ask me if I believe in gay marriage, the answer is NO if I am going by my definition of marriage.  But if I was going by your definition of marriage (I'm assuming your definition of marriage is that it's a social construct where 2 people are legally bound), the answer would be YES. I do believe that gay couples should have the same rights and benefits under the law of the state. 

I read the article you sent me, and to be completely honest, I don't agree with the amount of money spent on this political issue. If it were up to me, I'd say to not put any money on that, much less 2 mil. I understand their beliefs in traditional marriage, and I feel the same way, but at some point we need to remember that we are answering to a Higher Law, and to not get so wrapped up in political issues that don't involve people getting hurt, like the death penalty, abortion, and wars.

[abaris]

I believe marriage is more than a piece of government paper that 2 people sign. I believe the actual state of being married is one that extends beyond the government and beyond this world.... it's a spiritual union. This spiritual union is something that does not and cannot happen unless it's between one man and one woman who love each other and make the vow to be together for life.  

Do you feel that any form of formal ceremony is even needed to declare one's love for another person?

[Mudhammam]

The article to which you post a link was published in 1996.  If you click on your link and read the first line under her name, you will see which journal as well as the date.

Yeah, I saw that after I copied the link and posted the comment but I was too lazy to edit my guess.

P.S. - Nice analysis. I haven't read the "On Motherhood" part, but yeah she's pretty radical though still interesting nonetheless.

[rexbeccarox]

Here's a start:

http://www.hrc.org/nomexposed/section/th...e-equality

Ok, here's how I feel about the issue. 

I believe marriage is more than a piece of government paper that 2 people sign. I believe the actual state of being married is one that extends beyond the government and beyond this world.... it's a spiritual union. This spiritual union is something that does not and cannot happen unless it's between one man and one woman who love each other and make the vow to be together for life.  

So if you ask me if I believe in gay marriage, the answer is NO if I am going by my definition of marriage.  But if I was going by your definition of marriage (I'm assuming your definition of marriage is that it's a social construct where 2 people are legally bound), the answer would be YES. I do believe that gay couples should have the same rights and benefits under the law of the state. 

I read the article you sent me, and to be completely honest, I don't agree with the amount of money spent on this political issue. If it were up to me, I'd say to not put any money on that, much less 2 mil. I understand their beliefs in traditional marriage, and I feel the same way, but at some point we need to remember that we are answering to a Higher Law, and to not get so wrapped up in political issues that don't involve people getting hurt, like the death penalty, abortion, and wars.

Thank you

One more: how do you feel about your tithes going to fund the push for legislation against SSM?

[Alex K]

But Hell doesn't really exist because eternal punishment would be unjust, right CL?

It's difficult to explain, but I believe Hell is more like a state of being rather than a physical place. The way one theologian described it was that a person who is in Hell is constantly in a state that is devoid of goodness. Their minds are constantly in opposition to love or anything that is good. 

None of this is official doctrine, just opinion/speculation amongst some theologians. It makes sense to me though.

In the afterlife, I think the notions of state of being and physical place are the same anyway. I mean, we know that our usual usual bodies don't go anywhere, so if anything happens, state of being covers it. But still what you describe, if infinitely prolonged, is tantamount to an eternal depression and therefore my point is still the same - eternal torture of this kind for finite mistakes is a monstrosity.

[drfuzzy]

CL This spiritual union is something that does not and cannot happen unless it's between one man and one woman who love each other and make the vow to be together for life.  

So if you ask me if I believe in gay marriage, the answer is NO if I am going by my definition of marriage.  But if I was going by your definition of marriage (I'm assuming your definition of marriage is that it's a social construct where 2 people are legally bound), the answer would be YES. I do believe that gay couples should have the same rights and benefits under the law of the state. "


CL, would it astound you to know that I agree with you? I have argued for gay civil unions, but I draw the line at forcing churches to hold marriages.  One is equality, another is about religion.  These two things have never been equal.  I believe that churches will hold gay marriages - some are already - 
but we should let them change in their own time and in their own way, as long as they aren't actively lobbying to take away the rights of homosexuals.