Gun owners?

[Cyberman]

Then I retract and redirect it, with an attached apology for not picking up on the irony. Now, about that party...

[Crossless2.0]

OK, now you're talking!

Ah, the French Quarter: the food, the music, the booze, the tacky tourists, the mingled aromas of vomit and urine! Of course, if you'd like something classier there's the Garden District, a wonderful place. It's the New Orleans people who have never been to New Orleans imagine.

[KUSA]

[Aroura]

Stimbo, guns are not only useful to even things up against another gun but in my example above it would have evened the playing field against multiple attackers.

Look I get it, you are English and it's in your blood to be a pussy. Come over here and stay with me for a couple of weeks and I'll make a man out of you. I'll take you shooting and you can experience for the first time the feeling of testosterone in your veins.

I have many military style guns to train you on. We don't even have to go to a range. We can shoot on my own property. If you hang around long enough, I'll teach you how to reload your own ammo. I have several kinds of powders and bullets to choose from and different calibers too.

That's a giant leap of logic.

It's possible if your friend had a gun, since there were 5 attackers, that they could have taken it away from him and shot him with it.

You don't know, and neither do I. Both are possible. Other possibilities include your friend shooting and killing his attackers, and being prosecuted for excessive force, since they only had a stick and he had a gun. I admit it might have prevented any violence, but it might also have caused more violence.

Why do you assume only the positive outcome? Confirmation bias much?

[Minimalist]

He always carries a gun with him now. If he had one then, I'm sure this wouldn't have happened to him.

Or they'd have stolen his fucking gun and shot him with it.

[Salacious B. Crumb]

I feel Stimbo and KUSA have been making good points on here with their debate. I’m still unsure where I stand, because of debates like this. I’ve done some soul searching on this topic over the past year or two, and have went from hardcore pro-gun, to somewhere in the middle, although I still love to go shooting if the situation ever presents itself, but I don’t go out of my way anymore to go shooting, because I’ve slightly become more against owning more military-style type of rifles (and others). I know many gun owners are responsible out there, but after doing some thinking, and seeing Min’s thread on the 2nd amendment, I know something needs to be done.  

I know quite a bit about guns. I know the terminology, and how they function, for the most part. When buying my first gun, which was a Glock 19 Gen 3, I did months of daily research (nearly a year) on guns in general. I researched every possible thing I could, from gun safety, to recommended first guns, to calibers, to you name it. I could put in order which caliber would hit with more foot pounds of energy out of any round, from high-powered rifles rounds, down to a .25 ACP, and give you the average energy that it would hit with. I knew the etiquette when I first walked into a gun store and I knew how to handle a gun before I walked in by myself for the first time, to buy my first gun. The problem is, when looking at the “All Hail the 2nd Amendment” thread, is that there are many retards out there that don’t know shit about guns, when they handle them. There are many ‘accidents’ every day. I’ve handled my guns that I used to own, probably over a thousand times in my house, and brought them out to show them to the people that would come over to our house, with ZERO amount of issues.

One of the problems is, is that when people buy a gun, they don’t do any of this, and the fools at some of these stores, especially gun shows, don’t care who they sell the gun to (they care about profit). I’ve seen many idiots in gun stores acting like 6 years olds with the gun in their hand, then the owner sells them the gun. That’s just one problem. Another problem is the government, that which I used to think should have less involvement, I think now should have more involvement. When you buy a gun, you should be required by law, to take a dozen or two classes when purchasing your first gun, going over A - Z about that gun, and gun safety. Another thing is that, out here, in Nevada, the only thing you need to do to get your concealed carry permit is to take one class that is about 6-8 hours in length, and you need to do a shooting qualification at the end of that class, which is far too easy. You can now qualify with a revolver, and legally carry either a classic semi-auto or a revolver concealed, or vice versa. You should have some serious training, if this government is going to allow this, to prevent all of these mishaps that we see every day.

Now, I completely understand KUSA’s argument here. Especially if I was in a rural area, I’d probably own a gun or two, and have one with me consistently. And, I’m very sorry to hear about your friend. I definitely wouldn’t want to be in that situation ever. The government should not prevent you from protecting your life at all times. If, the government completely banned guns, I think he should at least be allowed to have a sword (out in the country) or something that could do some damage to protect himself, when there is no one else around to do it for him. I carry a blade with me more often than not. Mostly for certain foods that I bring with me when driving, but if I’m getting beat on the ground, and my life is in danger, I’m going to do everything I can to whip it out and stick him in the neck, without remorse. The government shouldn’t be saying that’s something you cannot do.

The problem with America is that there are millions of illegal guns on the streets, and criminals don’t follow the law. Stimbo is right in saying that there is a lot less gun crime, because of the gun laws in the UK, but if we did ban guns, we’d surely have more problems for years, IMO. But, overall, it may be worth it, if cops were to get these guns off the street eventually. It’s easier to stop a maniac or retreat from a maniac with a knife, than a gun. I feel, I’m traveling into tl;dr range, but I’d say that we should try banning handguns and semi-auto rifles (although I do realize that you can be quick with a bolt or lever action weapon, but the capacity is usually quite low, and it’s a lot more difficult to conceal). People shouldn’t be able to walk around the cities with AK platform rifles on their backs, because if someone is doing that, it could be called in immediately. People shouldn’t have to be scared of what someone might do with that rifle on their back. I guess, overall, what I’m trying to say is that I wouldn’t mind seeing more gun control, to see how it goes, but I don’t feel I’d be for a complete gun ban. I do see positive and negative stories about people conceal carrying guns, but I don’t feel the government has a right to stop people from carrying knives for self defense. You have to have some way of fighting off a gang of people, if you ever ran into one.

[KUSA]

He always carries a gun with him now. If he had one then, I'm sure this wouldn't have happened to him.

Or they'd have stolen his fucking gun and shot him with it.

If you were in that same situation I'm willing to bet that you would want a gun too.

[Crossless2.0]

Stimbo, guns are not only useful to even things up against another gun but in my example above it would have evened the playing field against multiple attackers.

Look I get it, you are English and it's in your blood to be a pussy. Come over here and stay with me for a couple of weeks and I'll make a man out of you. I'll take you shooting and you can experience for the first time the feeling of testosterone in your veins.

I have many military style guns to train you on. We don't even have to go to a range. We can shoot on my own property. If you hang around long enough, I'll teach you how to reload your own ammo. I have several kinds of powders and bullets to choose from and different calibers too.

That's a giant leap of logic.

It's possible if your friend had a gun, since there were 5 attackers, that they could have taken it away from him and shot him with it.

You don't know, and neither do I. Both are possible. Other possibilities include your friend shooting and killing his attackers, and being prosecuted for excessive force, since they only had a stick and he had a gun. I admit it might have prevented any violence, but it might also have caused more violence.

Why do you assume only the positive outcome? Confirmation bias much?

Another possible outcome is his hitting a bystander and incurring criminal charges and civil liability for that.  Gun safety classes and hours spend training at a range are fine as far as it goes, but when the shit hits the fan and people's adrenaline is pumping, all bets are off. A moment's lapse of judgement (e.g., failure to check the background against which one is firing) can result in irreversible tragedy. Hell, one's entire life can be changed by nothing more than a freak ricochet.

As I've said, I own a shotgun whose primary purpose is home protection (though I'm always open to going out for some trap shooting). I stand by that decision. But pulling a fucking weapon should always be the last resort, and there'd better be a damn good reason to do it. If you can't imagine yourself successfully arguing to a judge that your actions were legal and responsible, you went way too far.

[Minimalist]

Or they'd have stolen his fucking gun and shot him with it.

If you were in that same situation I'm willing to bet that you would want a gun too.

I don't share your Rambo fantasies.  Unless you are ready and willing to pull that gun on every stranger who comes by he will have the edge since he decides whether or not to attack.


But I just added this to the Second Amendment thread.... fits here, as well.

The irony is strong with this one!

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/09/ohio-man...hoots-her/

Ohio man tries to teach wife about gun safety — accidentally shoots her

[Aroura]

If you were in that same situation I'm willing to bet that you would want a gun too.

I don't share your Rambo fantasies.  Unless you are ready and willing  to pull that gun on every stranger who comes by he will have the edge since he decides whether or not to attack.


But I just added this to the Second Amendment thread.... fits here, as well.

The irony is strong with this one!

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/09/ohio-man...hoots-her/

Ohio man tries to teach wife about gun safety — accidentally shoots her

Oh come on Min, if she'd had her own gun, she could have protected herself from her stupid husband.