Omniscience, omnipresence, omnipotence... etc.

[Napoléon]

Ha, that's true.

[Napoléon]

The Jewish scholar is correct. The biblical God is described variously as "All-mighty", "Lord of lords", "the All in all", etc. What we make of these statements comes largely from the Western philosophical tradition culminating with the Scholastic Church Fathers. They asked questions  like if God is the truly the maximum of goodness and perfection, as stated in the Scriptures, then what would that mean. From that inquiry we get the three omni-s.

So Chad, would you describe god as omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent?

[Minimalist]

Er,


[url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1%3A1&version=ESV][/url]

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

It pretty much lays out the omnipotence claim right in the fucking beginning.

[robvalue]

Yeah, it's a claim alright! No one saw him do any of that.

Considering how pathetic he later becomes, I think he is full of shit. Especially as he doesn't even understand what he has supposedly done properly.

[Minimalist]

Omniscience is covered here....

Psalm 139:4

4  Even before a word is on my tongue,
behold, O Lord, you know it altogether.

And a little later in #139 we cover omnipresence.

7  Where shall I go from your Spirit?
Or where shall I flee from your presence?
8  If I ascend to heaven, you are there!
If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there!
9  If I take the wings of the morning
and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea,
10  even there your hand shall lead me,
and your right hand shall hold me.
11  If I say, “Surely the darkness shall cover me,
and the light about me be night,”
12  even the darkness is not dark to you;
the night is bright as the day,
for darkness is as light with you.

So I'd say the jewish 'scholar' has some work to do.

[Napoléon]

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

How is that a claim of omnipotence? Serious question.

My understanding is that creating the universe != omnipotence.

You could easily have a deistic experimenter god that is not omnipotent.

[Minimalist]

Creating the heavens and earth?  I'd say that's pretty fucking omnipotent.  Granted their concept of the 'heavens' was a lot more primitive than our own but clearly they were trying to convey the idea that their god had a bigger dick than your god.

[Napoléon]

Creating the heavens and earth?  I'd say that's pretty fucking omnipotent.

I think you have a different definition of omnipotent to what I'm using. That or you're just being pedantic for the sake of it.

[bennyboy]

The answer to this is obvious, methinks.  The function of the God idea is to provide justice, or at least sense, to an unfair existence, thereby allowing people to get out of bed in the morning.

If God doesn't know everything, then how is he going to (one day, in a land far, far away) repay you for the shit that is your life, here and now?

Knowing everything is different to knowing enough though. You could conceive a god that knows enough to judge you, and has the power to judge you, without taking the extra leap of saying it's omni this or omni that.

Yeah, but if you're making shit up, why not go for gold? All you have to do is say, "Yeah, the paradoxes don't make sense. But god is so omni-powerful that he's stronger even than paradox." See, easy.

[Napoléon]

Yeah, but if you're making shit up, why not go for gold?  All you have to do is say, "Yeah, the paradoxes don't make sense.  But god is so omni-powerful that he's stronger even than paradox."  See, easy.

I guess I didn't get across where I'm coming from in my previous post. It's not that they go for gold that perplexes me. It's that actually, the books don't explicitly outline their god's omnipotence. They certainly give a strong hint at it, but like the Jewish guy said (I'll try and find the vid), it's not strictly something that the religious need to defend. Which is what confuses me, because an awful lot of religious people defend the omni bullshit to the hilt like it is actually scripture.

To me, saying your god created the universe, as powerful as that implies he is, it doesn't automatically mean he's omnipotent, like Min is trying to suggest. Same with any other verses that I've seen, they don't outright say god can do anything as and when he pleases. But I'm not a bible basher which is why I'm kinda cross-referencing that.