When do the ends justify the means?

[I_am_not_mafia]

It's not hard to imagine a government agency being tempted to use torture when they are given a specific task and don't concern themselves with the bigger picture. It's why intelligence agencies are always trying to remove our civil liberties, because it makes their job easier. But the  American Psychological Association should know better.


Torture, Psychology and the Real APA

I resigned in December 2007 after the August 2007 annual meeting effectively endorsed a professional role for psychologists in torture.

Let's go back to 2007. It was already apparent that psychologists had been actively involved in devising and implementing programs of interrogation that subjected people to various combinations of stress positions, nudity, hooding, isolation, slapping, shaking, dog threats, death threats, sensory deprivation, sleep deprivation, extreme heat or cold, intense light, relentless noise, exploitation of personal phobias, cultural and sexual humiliations, and the sheer terror of waterboarding.

Once psychologists used their knowledge of human behavior to understand, help, and heal. Now psychologists were using their expertise to destroy the fundamental psychological integrity of people held captive outside the criminal justice system.

Three senior officials lose their jobs at APA after US torture scandal

As the American Psychological Association copes with the damage reaped by an independent investigation that found it complicit in US torture, the group announced on Tuesday that its chief executive officer, its deputy CEO and its communications chief are no longer with the APA.

All three were implicated in the 542-page report issued this month by former federal prosecutor David Hoffman, who concluded that APA leaders “colluded” with the US department of defense and aided the CIA in loosening professional ethics and other guidelines to permit psychologist participation in torture.

Thankfully:

No More Torture: World’s Largest Group of Psychologists Bans Role in National Security Interrogations

[abaris]

Anyways, what I want to know is, in what instances do you guys think it is acceptable to torture someone?

As Chad said in post #2. Torture doesn't work because the tortured will tell anything and everything just to make it end. Might be the truth, might be pure invention. So, apart from being despicable, it's useless.

[Losty]

Anyways, what I want to know is, in what instances do you guys think it is acceptable to torture someone?

As Chad said in post #2. Torture doesn't work because the tortured will tell anything and everything just to make it end. Might be the truth, might be pure invention. So, apart from being despicable, it's useless.

This is the most popular response. Torture doesn't work for investigation! I know, guys, I really do know. I think torture is disgusting. I don't think there are any circumstances where it is acceptable. I think the only circumstance where I might end up doing it, would be if someone tortured me until I agreed. I don't even think a death threat would convince me unless the way I would die is really awful. But not everyone agrees with me. So I was just wondering if there are any circumstances where any of you guys might think it's ok to torture someone.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I simply don't.

[abaris]

So I was just wondering if there are any circumstances where any of you guys might think it's ok to torture someone.

Let me put it this way. It's the same as with capital punishment. There's no way a civilized society should endorse it. Under no circumstances.

As a flawed person, I know my limits. If someone were to hurt my loved ones, I would actually torture of kill them without having second thoughts. But that's not what society is about, isn't it. It isn't there to act on personal grievances. If it did, I wouldn't want to be part of that society, if that makes sense to you.

[Napoléon]

No I haven't, I've only extracted the logical conclusions.

Dude, she's just answering the question the OP asked. If the question asked is flawed and doesn't take into consideration the other things you talk about, then take it up with the OP, not her for providing an honest answer to it.

[Napoléon]

I believe my namesake has a good quote on this

The barbarous custom of having men beaten who are suspected of having important secrets to reveal must be abolished. It has always been recognized that this way of interrogating men, by putting them to torture, produces nothing worthwhile. The poor wretches say anything that comes into their mind and what they think the interrogator wishes to know.

[Losty]

I know many are struggling with the hypothetical that happens to not be true in reality, but I appreciated her actually answering my question instead of coming back with "torture doesn't work" yes...I know.

If you need rewording because you just cannot deal with the story from the movie Taken because it's not real...sure I can try that.

How about this question: did you really need to find out that torture doesn't work for you to decide that it's wrong?

[abaris]

How about this question: did you really need to find out that torture doesn't work for you to know that it's wrong?

Nope. And I think I made that pretty clear in saying that a civilized society shouldn't resort to violence as a means of investigation. It also shouldn't resort to violence in a punitive way.

[Losty]

How about this question: did you really need to find out that torture doesn't work for you to know that it's wrong?

Nope. And I think I made that pretty clear in saying that a civilized society shouldn't resort to violence as a means of investigation. It also shouldn't resort to violence in a punitive way.

I agree, you did. I was just switching up the question for anyone who might be uncomfortable answering it as a "what if torture did work" type question.