When do the ends justify the means?

[Losty]

Hi hello there...I think I'm in the right place. I hope.
I was talking with a friend the other day about torture. The original conversation started over a video game protagonist who tortures people to find answers about where their victims are. I said, he's not a hero because heroes do not torture people. At which point, my friend was so kind as to forever ruin batman for me *weeps*. Anyways, what I want to know is, in what instances do you guys think it is acceptable to torture someone? You can make a fake example like he did if you want.

He said if it were proven that torturing for information actually got results, and a bad person had kidnapped a child who would die soon unless found, torturing that bad person in order to find out where the child is would be the right thing to do. I disagreed, obviously keep interrogating and do what you can and try to find the child, but even if it means the child dies it would be wrong to torture the bad person. (Sorry for obscure wording but I was trying not to be sexist about villains and victims)

Anyways, I guess I just want to know if anyone else thinks there are certain circumstances where it would be morally acceptable to torture another person, and if so, what are they?

[Chad32]

The CIA torture reports seem to indicate that it didn't really work. The instances where you know absolutely that someone knows something worth torturing them for, and that people will die if you don't get the info, is mostly seen in movies. In Guantanamo, it turns out that many people were innocent, and that almost no information they got was worth what they did.

It's like, do you really think there were witches in Salem? People making pacts with Satan, and performing magic? One red flag is that one way to tell if a woman is a witch is if she floats when you put her in water. So either she'll drown an innocent woman, or keep herself from drowning long enough for the town to kill her anyway.

Torture is a violation of Human rights. There's even an amendment in the constitution covering cruel and unusual punishment. It's against the Geneva Convention. This kind of thing should not be debatable, yet people have been trying to justify "enhanced interrogation techniques".

[Losty]

You're telling me about the constitution and the Geneva Convention. I know these things, I'm just asking what people think. I felt like my friend thought I was weird for saying that torture is absolutely 100% wrong regardless of even imaginary circumstances where there could be a good ending from it. So I was checking to see if everyone else thinks torturing is always wrong, or if I'm cray... Sounds like you don't think I'm crazy.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Torture doesn't work. The information garnered is still shoddy, because the victim will say anything to stop the cattle-prod shocking his balls or the wet rag suffocating his breath or the forearm crushing his throat or the knocks on the door that have woken him up every hour for the last fifty-two days.

Torture doesn't elicit accurate information. Torture appeases the base instincts of assholes.

[vorlon13]

Omni magazine ran a short story years ago called A Thousand Deaths. It's an interesting read on a form of torture grossly beyond anything that could be done today.

And yet the hero of the story was able to adapt to it . . . .

[Athene]

Personally, I would torture the shit out of someone whom I knew was involved in the disappearance of a missing child and had knowledge of the their whereabouts. Moral? Maybe not....wouldn't even be my concern. Upholding my sense of morality wouldn't be the objective. The goal would be to get it done...and find the kid. People that abduct and rape children forfeit any and all moral consideration in my opinion.

[vorlon13]

I normally would not harm an animal.

However, if I'm driving down a city street and see a pitbull clamped on a little kid, I'm grabbing my DeWalt, and I'm going to start drilling holes in the dog.

Or the drywall knife. It's dull, but it would work too.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Personally, I would torture the shit out of someone whom I knew was involved in the disappearance of a missing child and had knowledge of the their whereabouts. Moral? Maybe not....wouldn't even be my concern. Upholding my sense of morality wouldn't be the objective. The goal would be to get it done...and find the kid. People that abduct and rape children forfeit any and all moral consideration in my opinion.

I understand the sentiment, but the fact is that people who abduct and rape children also kill them.

"Their whereabouts" in those sorts of cases is the crawlspace under the house. What has torture gotten you?

I'm against torture for any reason, any time, any person. If you've ever been abused, you'll understand why I say this.

[Athene]

Personally, I would torture the shit out of someone whom I knew was involved in the disappearance of a missing child and had knowledge of the their whereabouts. Moral? Maybe not....wouldn't even be my concern. Upholding my sense of morality wouldn't be the objective. The goal would be to get it done...and find the kid. People that abduct and rape children forfeit any and all moral consideration in my opinion.

I understand the sentiment, but the fact is that people who abduct and rape children also kill them.

"Their whereabouts" in those sorts of cases is the crawlspace under the house. What has torture gotten you?

I'm against torture for any reason, any time, any person. If you've ever been abused, you'll understand why I say this.

I'm against torture as well. 

I was just answering a hypothetical scenario in which an innocent child who was known to be alive and could still be found, as honestly as possible. I would do what it takes to find them, if  I knew with absolute certainty who the person responsible for taking them was  AND they were not forthcoming. 

I know that torture is wrong, but I can't say that it's not something I wouldn't consider under those very specific circumstances as a matter of survival. As I said, I'm just being honest.

[Exian]

I'm against torture in all cases, but like Thena and Vorlon, I don't think my stance would matter much; given the chance, I'd probably succumb to my anger in that particular hypothetical. I remember throwing things at the TV when I lost a game as a child, so I know it's in there somewhere.

Have any of you seen this

It's hard to watch but it was pretty good.