When do the ends justify the means?

[Thumpalumpacus]

No I haven't, I've only extracted the logical conclusions.

Dude, she's just answering the question the OP asked. If the question asked is flawed and doesn't take into consideration the other things you talk about, then take it up with the OP, not her for providing an honest answer to it.

I'm just pointing out inferences that are packed inside it. I'm not taking a shot at Thena, or anyone else; inbuilt assumptions need to be aired out, in order that the discussion is on an even keel.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I know many are struggling with the hypothetical that happens to not be true in reality, but I appreciated her actually answering my question instead of coming back with "torture doesn't work" yes...I know.

If you need rewording because you just cannot deal with the story from the movie Taken because it's not real...sure I can try that.

How about this question: did you really need to find out that torture doesn't work for you to decide that it's wrong?

Well, I haven't seen that movie.

Me, my objection to torture is not on practicality, but rather morality. My dad was firehosed by the SAVAK for three days in the Evin "hotel" for having played music too loud, disturbing the sleep of the SAVAK major-general upstairs, so I have a personal repulsion to it. But having thought that through as a boy, I came to the conclusion that beating the "truth" out of someone is generally speaking not a method designed to elicit truth, but rather, to express revenge, which is an emotion I disdain and abjure.

Torture is not only inefficient; it's most often a case of toying with helpless prey. On those grounds alone it should be rejected. The fact that it is also counterproductive is only empirical support for subjective morality.

I mention practicality first because I understand that not everyone shares my views on morality. You need not agree with me that it's wrong in order to agree with me that it's not apt to produce actionable intelligence. (Not that I'm saying you think it's right; I don't believe you do.)

[Athene]

So I was just wondering if there are any circumstances where any of you guys might think it's ok to torture someone.

Let me put it this way. It's the same as with capital punishment. There's no way a civilized society should endorse it. Under no circumstances.

As a flawed person, I know my limits. If someone were to hurt my loved ones, I would actually torture of kill them without having second thoughts. But that's not what society is about, isn't it. It isn't there to act on personal grievances. If it did, I wouldn't want to be part of that society, if that makes sense to you.

Well put, indeed.

[Athene]

I know many are struggling with the hypothetical that happens to not be true in reality, but I appreciated her actually answering my question instead of coming back with "torture doesn't work" yes...I know.

If you need rewording because you just cannot deal with the story from the movie Taken because it's not real...sure I can try that.

How about this question: did you really need to find out that torture doesn't work for you to decide that it's wrong?

Well, I haven't seen that movie.

Me,  my objection to torture is not on practicality, but rather morality. My dad was firehosed by the SAVAK for three days in the Evin "hotel" for having played music too loud, disturbing the sleep of the SAVAK major-general upstairs, so I have a personal repulsion to it. But having thought that through as a boy, I came to the conclusion that beating the "truth" out of someone is generally speaking not a method designed to elicit truth, but rather, to express revenge, which is an emotion I disdain and abjure.

Torture is not only inefficient; it's most often a case of toying with helpless prey. On those grounds alone it should be rejected. The fact that it is also counterproductive is only empirical support for subjective morality.

I mention practicality first because I understand that not everyone shares my views on morality. You need not agree with me that it's wrong in order to agree with me that it's not apt to produce actionable intelligence. (Not that I'm saying you think it's right; I don't believe you do.)

I'm sorry that you and your family had to experience that. I understand that this issue hits close to home for you.

I hope that you do recognize that practically everyone who responded to this thread (especially myself), made it clear that they believed that torture is wrong on every level. Even those who openly admitted that there could be some circumstance which could cause them to resort to such violence, stopped well short of saying that it would be justified.