Is God Moral or Immoral

[Scented Nectar]

He is neither moral nor immoral but unmoral. Hitchens has a good view of this point.

He might have the exact same morals of the people who made him up back in those barbaric times. Funny how that always happens, eh? I've not read Hitchens on that one. Is it in a particular book or article somewhere?

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Those lessons are there to teach certain values. Each individual passage has its meaning, and is there for a reason. To try to break it down and question whether God is moral or not is immaterial, as we are not God ourselves and cannot act as him. Christians are taught to be good people, and not amoral.

The bible professes to be a moral guide. If you are saying that people should not use it as a moral example, then what use is it to believers? No facts because they are all metaphors, no lessons because there are life values but not the morals making them meaningless rules to follow. Christians are not taught to be good people. The bible is not a book of lessons to be good. It teaches the opposite, to hate, to kill and to fear, oh yeah and to love your god on command.

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He starts of the video saying that he is setting out clear examples using the most extreme examples, and then totally fails to demonstrate any discerable bias one way or another.

Yeah, it should have shown the nice things that religions have claimed as their morals, since that completely cancels out the bad, but insignificant things like inquisitions, many genocides, political suppression and current mental torture (through threats of hell) of little children (physical too if you're catholic these days). After all, xtians are also told to be charitable, and some actually are sometimes. If that doesn't make up for my imminent stoning to death for any of a number of noncrimes, I don't know what does, by golly!

God is just. This is what the authors of that bible summised from what was written, as do genrations of Jews since.

So you are completely trusting humans who you never even met from thousands of years ago, on the important issue of whether your god is just? Shouldn't you be making up your own mind on that? Especially since those humans lived in barbaric times, and were likely of the opinion that many types of injustices were just (revenge feels good so it must BE good). Read what your biblegod actually does in the book. Read without the 'everything from this point forward gets an auto justice pass' glasses.

How can you be that ignorant that you think you can state the opposite from what is logically presented? Ah I know.... just call yourself an atheist and look for any wild justification by any extremist nut job that you'd normally want clearly labelled and take on those views without any thought of your own. Way to go. This is your room and those are your straight jackets hanging up over there. I hope you enjoy your stay in hotel irrationality.

What is the opposite to what logical presentation? Huh???

[downbeatplumb]

The bible is particularly bad as a moral guide.

By using ambiguous stories to illustrate points, it becomes impossible to pin down what it actually means, without leaving a chink for people to justify whatever position they have at the time.

Good laws leave no wiggle room and are as unamibguous as they can be made.

The ten commandments would be a good example of this if the actual laws themselves werent so crap.

[Atheist_named_Christian]

He is neither moral nor immoral but unmoral. Hitchens has a good view of this point.

He might have the exact same morals of the people who made him up back in those barbaric times. Funny how that always happens, eh? I've not read Hitchens on that one. Is it in a particular book or article somewhere?

Yes, you're right - and that makes him unmoral by today's standards.
There are passages in "God is not great" (in the first half - I just started reading 2 days ago) and I also think in "The portable atheist".

[Welsh cake]

I can add something. He's taking the bible too literally.

And those who continually worship this monstrous tyrant deity aren't being Biblical literalists?

God is just.

If you were God fr0d0, would you burn me alive in hell for all eternity, simply because I could not believe in you due to a lack of sufficient evidence at the time?

[Watson]

^ I doubt fr0do would do that; if you were God, however, you would do it to yourself after having seen how foolish and blind you'd been to all of the indication towards God's existence.

But that's a paradox in and of itself.

[John_S3V]

I can add something. He's taking the bible too literally.

Even if the lesson's examples in the bible are not literally true, would it make the morals of the lessons themselves good ones?

Those lessons are there to teach certain values. Each individual passage has its meaning, and is there for a reason. To try to break it down and question whether God is moral or not is immaterial, as we are not God ourselves and cannot act as him. Christians are taught to be good people, and not amoral.

Numbers 31:5-20 So twelve thousand men armed for battle, a thousand from each tribe, were supplied from the clans of Israel. Moses sent them into battle, a thousand from each tribe, along with Phinehas son of Eleazar, the priest, who took with him articles from the sanctuary and the trumpets for signaling. They fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man. Among their victims were Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur and Reba—the five kings of Midian. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho. Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp. Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle. "Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them. "They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and were the means of turning the Israelites away from the LORD in what happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

I don't care how perfect and righteous god says he is. I don't believe him.

[Zen Badger]

^ I doubt fr0do would do that; if you were God, however, you would do it to yourself after having seen how foolish and blind you'd been to all of the indication towards God's existence.

But that's a paradox in and of itself.

And what would these indications be?

Since after dozens of posts and hundreds of words none of you have produced ANY evidence

to support the existence of your god.