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RE: Actual Infinities
October 30, 2015 at 5:23 am
(October 30, 2015 at 3:11 am)robvalue Wrote: I agree that philosophy is useless when used as a substitute for evidence. It's an attempt to circumvent the scientific method by creating a simplified model which leads to the desired conclusion via a tautology.
And because there is no evidence, there's no way to dismiss it and move on. So the wank just stays around forever cluttering up the literature and making it impenetrable for the people that follow.
Whereas if your scientific theory is wrong then eventually the body of evidence will grow to demonstrate this and the field moves on.
That's not to say that there isn't a room for philosophy. I have read and referenced philosophy papers myself and found some of them useful. But in each case it has been written by someone who has been philosophising about a particular subject in which they themselves are an expert.
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RE: Actual Infinities
October 30, 2015 at 5:28 am
(This post was last modified: October 30, 2015 at 5:34 am by ignoramus.)
Quote:houseofcantor
Quote:Why wouldn't you just grow one from a chicken, or watch Jurassic Park like a normal person?
A normal person? you mean like a good Christian or a heathen? What's normal these days? Everyone gone bacon lettuce tomato!
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RE: Actual Infinities
October 30, 2015 at 5:39 am
(October 30, 2015 at 5:17 am)houseofcantor Wrote: (October 30, 2015 at 4:55 am)ignoramus Wrote: You're right Gwynnie!
That's why it can't work.
Even if we find someone 32.5m light years away it won't work.
(32.5 each way to see the dinos) because they will only see earth at 32.5m years ago ...no dinos again.
OK, let's forget the other guys, We invent warp drive in 500 years and chase the dino light ourselves at a safe warp 9.
It's still going to take us 7 million years to reach it. Then we have to build the telescope as big as the universe to see the dinos up close.
Negative time travel seems to be physically impossible. Only relative forward time travel is possible.
Why wouldn't you just grow one from a chicken, or watch Jurassic Park like a normal person? 
Ha! Have you read Jack Horner's book too? 
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: Actual Infinities
October 30, 2015 at 5:42 am
(This post was last modified: October 30, 2015 at 5:42 am by Alex K.)
(October 30, 2015 at 5:23 am)Mathilda Wrote: (October 30, 2015 at 3:11 am)robvalue Wrote: I agree that philosophy is useless when used as a substitute for evidence. It's an attempt to circumvent the scientific method by creating a simplified model which leads to the desired conclusion via a tautology.
And because there is no evidence, there's no way to dismiss it and move on. So the wank just stays around forever cluttering up the literature and making it impenetrable for the people that follow.
Whereas if your scientific theory is wrong then eventually the body of evidence will grow to demonstrate this and the field moves on.
That's not to say that there isn't a room for philosophy. I have read and referenced philosophy papers myself and found some of them useful. But in each case it has been written by someone who has been philosophising about a particular subject in which they themselves are an expert.
Of course we need philosophy to understand nature, e. g. physics - the science alone does not really tell you what you have actually learned and understood about reality.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: Actual Infinities
October 30, 2015 at 7:41 am
(This post was last modified: October 30, 2015 at 8:22 am by Anomalocaris.)
(October 30, 2015 at 4:23 am)houseofcantor Wrote: (October 29, 2015 at 11:42 pm)ignoramus Wrote: It's a hypthetical question.
Where'd you get 130 million from?
Need at least 65 million years for them to see our dinosaurs, and then 65 million years for us to see their TV.
No, if they are located 32.5 million light years from earth, then 32.5 million of our years ago, they would be looking a further 32.5 million years back into our time, just catching the the visages of the last dinosaurs contemplating the asteroids 65 million of our years years ago. While the image of their 32.5 million year old view of our dinosaurs would just be completing the round trip an arrive now at our magical telescope of unlimited resolving power, giving you the opportunity to Monday morning quarterback, 65 million years removed.
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RE: Actual Infinities
October 30, 2015 at 7:48 am
Chuck, please explain another way for me...
How can a person 32.5m light years away possibly see any trex photon from 65m years ago ...The photons have long shot past their planet, yes?
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RE: Actual Infinities
October 30, 2015 at 7:49 am
We've got a lot of work to do here, it seems! We can't even get the maths sorted and we're 65 million years behind schedule or something.
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RE: Actual Infinities
October 30, 2015 at 7:51 am
(This post was last modified: October 30, 2015 at 7:51 am by ignoramus.)
And you think you've got lag on your internet! Pffft!
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RE: Actual Infinities
October 30, 2015 at 7:57 am
(This post was last modified: October 30, 2015 at 8:06 am by Anomalocaris.)
(October 30, 2015 at 7:48 am)ignoramus Wrote: Chuck, please explain another way for me...
How can a person 32.5m light years away possibly see any trex photon from 65m years ago ...The photons have long shot past their planet, yes?
T. rex photos starting their trip 65 million years ago would reach a persoj 32.5 million LY away after 32.5 million years, arriving 32.5 million of our years ago. If that person captures the photons and converts them to an image displayed on an extremely precocious Samsung big screen, then the photons from that screen would take another 32.5 million years to get back to us, meaning it gets here right now.
I can do some calculations and tell you how big the aperture of any telescope that can theoretically resolve a T. rex, or the image of one On a Samsung, 32.5 million light years away, would need to be, but that's another story.
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RE: Actual Infinities
October 30, 2015 at 8:22 am
(October 30, 2015 at 7:41 am)Chuck Wrote: (October 30, 2015 at 4:23 am)houseofcantor Wrote: Need at least 65 million years for them to see our dinosaurs, and then 65 million years for us to see their TV.
No, if that are located 32.5 million light years from earth, then 32.5 million of our years ago, they would be looking a further 32.5 million years back into our time, just catching the the visages of the last dinosaurs contemplating the asteroids 65 million of our years years ago. While the image of their 32.5 million year old view of our dinosaurs would just be completing the round trip an arrive now at our magical telescope of unlimited resolving power, giving you the opportunity to Monday morning quarterback.
Huh. Good catch. 
That's definitely one thing I like about atheist forums, there's thinking going on, even if I ain't the one doing it.
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