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(June 7, 2010 at 3:34 pm)Paul the Human Wrote: God created us with flaws on purpose and, in fact, always knew he would, so he forgives us those flaws, as he always knew he would. He then verified those flaws by allowing his enemy to tempt us to sin, as he always knew he would. We sinned, as he always knew we would. Thousands of years later, he came to earth as his own son, as he always knew he would, in order to be put to death for blasphemy, so that he would be able to forgive us that original sin, as he always knew he would. It is all a part of his mysterious plan, which he doesn't need, because he has always known what will happen. It's beyond pointless. It's retarded. This god guy doesn't sound very bright.
(EDIT: I forgot to mention that at one point, he got so angry with his creations, as he always knew he would, that he killed almost all of them in a big flood, as he knew he always would. Maybe he's just bored. I would be.)
You seem to be subscribing to the Woody Allen model of god:
Quote:If it turns out that there IS a God, I don't think that He's evil. I think that the worst you can say about Him is that basically He's an underachiever.
From Love and Death. A very funny film.
He who desires to worship God must harbor no childish illusions about the matter but bravely renounce his liberty and humanity.
Mikhail Bakunin
A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything
Friedrich Nietzsche
June 7, 2010 at 5:22 pm (This post was last modified: June 7, 2010 at 5:28 pm by ShnogTrip.)
I'm enjoying the comments from everyone here. I've laughed quite a few times. I can see there's some bright people on here. I appreciate the replies.
"If you've got a religious belief that withers in the face of observations of the natural world, you ought to rethink your beliefs — rethinking the world isn't an option" - P.Z. Myers
June 9, 2010 at 3:54 am (This post was last modified: June 9, 2010 at 3:56 am by Killman.)
Holy Bubble-gum noodles! That was a good read!
In my opinion, God just sounds like a lonely guy. So, he made us for company. Then he figured out we were "flawed", so he basically reacted like this: "Oh hell no! I don't wanna be seen with this posse!"
And here we are.
The feeble mind will pray to god, the feeble mind will fall.
In my opinion, God just sounds like a lonely guy. So, he made us for company. Then he figured out we were "flawed", so he basically reacted like this: "Oh hell no! I don't wanna be seen with this posse!"
To be a follower of Christianity and get to heaven you have to
1) Believe.
2) Be controlled.
3) Be afraid.
4) Believe that all of mankind has been punished for something two people did in the beginning, which is why there's evil and suffering.
5) Believe that in the end there will be no evil and suffering, meaning that God could get rid of it at any time but chooses not to.
6) Believe that God tests people even though he knows every outcome making the test pointless.
7) Believe that God sent down his son to die so that we could be forgiven for how God created us.
We are being punished for the way God made us. It'd be like me building a robot and then when it doesn't perform like I want it to I destroy it because of my own mistakes. Also, I think humans are pretty capable of learning about sacrifice and forgiveness without having some guy nailed to a cross. What about the many other people killed by his wrath in the old testament? Did they really have to be killed? We are being punished for something he knew was going to happen beforehand. God created adam and eve with faults and tested them to see if they'd disobey him, even though he already knew the outcome. God then punishes mankind and sends down Jesus to die and show us his love and forgiveness even though he could've just, I don't know, simply forgave us and maybe demonstrated his love and forgiveness in a less harmful way?
The bible is the perfect typical superhero story. A story about a man who sacrifices himself for humanity. A hero that will one day come back and save us and kill the villain and we'll all live happily ever after. People love hero vs villain stories. Why do you think most superhero movies make so much money? I think the devil was added to the story for marketing reasons. If there's no boogeyman no one will be afraid to disbelieve the story.
I want to know what people think about their God watching innocent children starve or being beaten, tortured, raped, stabbed, brutally murdered, etc. and not doing anything to stop or prevent it. Is it all because of some free will test? If so, why would a God that already knows everything need to test people? If he somehow doesn't know everything then why cant he test people in other ways besides allowing an innocent child to be murdered or millions of children to starve to death? According to the bible, humanity must suffer because two people disobeyed God by eating from a tree. I think that if a person is to accept that as truth then I'm just as worried about that person as I am about a God like that existing.
According to the bible, God allows evil and suffering to exist. In the beginning there was no evil until the devil rebelled against God. Since God is all knowing and knows every outcome, this means that he allowed the devil to exist while knowing he was going to become evil. He also created and tested the first people, Adam and Eve, knowing the outcome of the test. But decided to punish every person on earth anyway for their imperfection. If you're a Christian you have to believe that God created evil and suffering and that he allows it to exist. If a Christian denies that, they are denying what the bible clearly says. The bible also says that God is going to eventually end evil and suffering. Why doesn't God do it now? Why would a loving God allow it to exist to begin with? God is to blame for the evil and suffering in this world because he is in full control over its existence.
Why would a God allow his holy word to be changed by humans? It seems like it'd be pretty important to prevent that from happening since the bible is supposed to be the most important book to live by. Words and entire books have been removed from the bible. Did God make some mistakes? Why do the 10 commandments not even mention rape? Today's laws make more sense than the supposed laws of God. This is simply because the bible was written by man for the people of the time in which it was written.
Christianity and its God is man-made and it's obvious to me. Look at how the Christian God is described in the bible. He's very human-like. He's jealous. He kills. He wants your money. He makes mistakes. He hates things that he created. He demands to be worshiped or else. He's egotistical and bad tempered. It's not surprising that humans would create a God that is more like ourselves. We are very egotistical and it's our main weakness. I think that when we worship any God we are really worshiping ourselves. The bible says that we were made in God's image and likeness. I think it's the other way around. I don't see how it could comfort anyone to believe that something that is anything like a human is in control of the universe.
Every one of God's attributes, according to the bible, are just like man's. The jealousy, the ego, the violence, the love, the hate, and the judging. It's what we want God to be. People want to be in control. People want to be loved. People want to be worshiped. We are worshiping ourselves.
Most religious people think that their God is the right God and that should show people that no one really knows anything. People sometimes confuse belief with knowing. People have made up religions for thousands of years in order to explain life's questions that people had at the time. A lot of questions have been answered and probably wouldn't have been answered if the bible was the only book we read and followed.
The bible is self contradicting and full of holes. Most christians can't even agree on how to interpret it. People tend to interpret it based on their own desires. Some of the more rational christians don't pay attention to the old testament because of the pure insanity of it. If you're going to read a book that is supposedly the most important book in the universe then you'd think you'd want to read and follow the entire book instead of picking and choosing. Some people say that the bible is all symbolic and some say it's all literal. You'd think that God would've done a better job at making sure more people understood and agreed on his holy word, especially when it could make the difference between someone going to hell or not.
One of the reasons why I don't believe in any organized religion is because I don't trust human beings enough. Just think about what people are capable of. At one time Christians murdered anyone who opposed their faith. The bible says that the devil is responsible for people's bad decisions. People don't want to think that human beings are capable of doing bad things. We don't like to be reminded that we're imperfect. Let's blame it all on the devil just like we did when we thought insane people were posessed. It's just another example of how ignorant we were at the time and how we don't like to take responsibility for our own actions.
I was born into a Christian family and I was always worried about angering God and not being good enough and going to hell. Christians have always used scare tactics to try to convert people. The authors of the bible did the same thing. The bible basically tells you that it's wrong to be human. The authors and followers of the bible used fear and guilt to control people and the sad thing is that people are still being controlled by it to this very day. Christians are taught not to question or doubt their faith which also scares people into continuing to blindly believe. I think fear is a bad reason to be good or to believe in something.
One of the main reasons why some people don't question or leave their religion is because of fear. Some people are afraid to disappoint or go against their friends or family if they are also believers. It scares people to death to think for a second that there might not be a God. That life might just be simpler and more cruel and unfair than they want it to be. That we might all really be on our own. That we're not as special as we think we are. That death might be the end. People also afraid of being wrong which is another example of our ego getting the best of us. I think that the longer people believe in it, the harder it is for people to get away from it. I think that it's a sickness. I think that it divides more people than it unites.
The bible makes people think that they need their religion in order to be good or loving, or to even be alive, which of course isn't true at all. It tells you you'll go to hell if you don't believe in that particular God. There's no more proof that the Christian God exists than Zeus or Allah or any other god. I believe that all of the gods that have been created by humanity cancel each other out. Wanting something to be true doesn't make it true. If I raised a child, kept him sheltered, and told him that a giant banana in space created us. That everyone else is a liar and that if he doesn't get saved by the giant banana he'll burn forever, i'm willing to bet he'd believe it. We are gullible and desperate for answers.
The bible has human finger prints all over it. People like good vs evil stories, which the bible is. People like violence, which the bible has. People like choosing teams, which the bible says you must do. People like feeling like they know the answers. People like thinking that they're right. People like thinking that bad people will be tortured forever. People like thinking that they're special. People like thinking there's always someone there to help them. People like thinking that they're not alone. People like thinking a hero will come back and take us all to heaven. People want to think that we will live forever. The bible is full of what humans want. It isn't the word of some God. It's the word of man.
A lot of people are being controlled by the bible. It teaches you to rely on something else instead of yourself. I think it gives people hope but teaches people to be weak. I don't like how fear is one of the main tools the authors used and Christians today use to convert people and keep them hooked. It does teach some good morals but we don't need the bible in order to be good. Doing good things because someone else tells you to is an empty reason to me. When it comes to religion, I think that the bad outweighs the good. I think that when you follow a religion you're setting yourself up for disappointments. Some people like to live in reality and some people like to hide from it.
I refuse to bow down to a man-made creation. I won't be controlled by other people's beliefs. And I certainly am never going to claim that I know the truth.
Completely agree with Fr0d0 in the 1-7 thing, all horrible mess of misconceptions about what it means to be a Christian, belief being the only one I agree with.
"One of the main reasons why some people don't question or leave their religion is because of fear. "
true- although that's not Jesus' teachings
"The bible has human finger prints all over it."
-Yes it does, I try and weed out those biased parts
"A lot of people are being controlled by the bible."
-Yes they are, but thats also idolatry
"I think fear is a bad reason to be good or to believe in something. "
-Completely agree
I think the rest is just you ridding yourself of your brainwashing and is a horribly misconstrued version of Christian mainstream beliefs, but perhaps you've only had your local perspective on that.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
Where in that sentence is there any fear, hell, evil or anything scary at all? It would be like saying "I sell tastey doughnuts, come and buy them from me". Does that sentence really inspire such fear as to reject the whole premise of God or frighten people into following him, I truly don't see it, please help me understand. Maybe if you hear that right after a few hours of hellfire and brimstone preaching I can see where it could be interpreted as such, is that what's going on?
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
Very popular verse quoted min, but that's not the route religions (specifically Christianity) are moving towards. Here's a link for inclusivism http://www.theopedia.com/Inclusivism which is something my congregation believes in, as well as the Church of God movement, to the best of my knowledge.
There is, by your literal interpretation of the quote, nothing literally evil or inheritly bad about it. You may want there to be but it's not there. You can either take a literal approach or contextual, stop switching between them, it makes my head hurt.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
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