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RE: The Not-so-elephant In The Room
December 10, 2015 at 6:42 pm
(December 10, 2015 at 6:22 pm)excitedpenguin Wrote: I can kind of relate to the type you describe in the first paragraph, so I would have to disagree. I'm not saying I'm a nut, but I'm not that much of a pessimist either.
The second paragraph, I can get more in line with.
A pessimist about what, I guess I would ask. The present or the future? If you're talking about the present, I would ask what you think could be good about the atrocities that regularly happen on the planet. I mean I'm certainly not saying that good things never happen, they obviously do, but just that bad things do and that they are tragic and that's it. If you're talking about the future, I would agree that we have reason to be cautiously optimistic that it will at least improve. But that still doesn't change the cold indifference of nature itself.
(December 10, 2015 at 6:26 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Live and let live. If a person is a good person and isn't harming anyone, then I don't see why it should bother you whether or not they believe in God.
With all due respect, I wonder if this isn't just a myth. First, would you agree that at least one person has to be wrong? If so, then someone is walking around with the wrong (or a more wrong) map of the world in their head. And clearly if your map is wrong, you're going to make some bad decisions, and probably ones that affect more people than just you, given that we live in an interdependent society where decisions have to be made and applied to groups. Alternatively, imagine a game of basketball where each player might hold his own beliefs about what the rules are and even who is on the court. Speaking only for myself, I want to be playing with the guys who don't shoot at the wrong hoop or pass the ball off to the guy who isn't there.
People's beliefs are doing work in the world at all times. Just because someone isn't actively trying to blow me up doesn't mean their beliefs aren't affecting me (and others). That's why I personally would be bothered whether or not they believe in God.
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RE: The Not-so-elephant In The Room
December 10, 2015 at 6:45 pm
How can someone's beliefs be effecting you negatively if they are good people living their own lives the best way they know how and aren't doing anything to hurt anyone?
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: The Not-so-elephant In The Room
December 10, 2015 at 6:47 pm
(This post was last modified: December 10, 2015 at 6:50 pm by Whateverist.)
(December 10, 2015 at 5:49 pm)excitedpenguin Wrote: Do you think there will ever come a time when it's not considered normal, or sane for that matter, for a person to hold such beliefs and how and when would you say that could happen, if you do?
I actually think the opposite. I think the scorn many feel toward theists on account of their flagrant lack of objectivity will eventually be understood as fitting the human mind very understandably. Perhaps then those whose minds are wired this way (theists) will become more accepting and stop their damnable, self-righteous proselytizing. On our side we'll simply see theists as operating in the world with their minds adapted to play both parts -god and man- very often in a manner which permits them to be objective and rational in all other regards.
Could happen. But the number whose brains become wired for god will probably dwindle if such an understanding became commonplace.
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RE: The Not-so-elephant In The Room
December 10, 2015 at 6:49 pm
(December 10, 2015 at 6:42 pm)Amine Wrote: (December 10, 2015 at 6:22 pm)excitedpenguin Wrote: I can kind of relate to the type you describe in the first paragraph, so I would have to disagree. I'm not saying I'm a nut, but I'm not that much of a pessimist either.
The second paragraph, I can get more in line with.
A pessimist about what, I guess I would ask. The present or the future? If you're talking about the present, I would ask what you think could be good about the atrocities that regularly happen on the planet. I mean I'm certainly not saying that good things never happen, they obviously do, but just that bad things do and that they are tragic and that's it. If you're talking about the future, I would agree that we have reason to be cautiously optimistic that it will at least improve. But that still doesn't change the cold indifference of nature itself. I would have to agree with that. You formulated your initial thoughts somewhat ambiguously though, thus my not totally agreeing with them.
I would have to say there's surely explanations to why things happen and I'm sure there are explanations for how things ought to happen too or whether something is right or wrong(should we let it happen or not - it would be our decision though, based on evidence and sound reasoning). So that's all the meaning there is. The meaning we create ourselves. That's not to say it's not important, because it is.
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RE: The Not-so-elephant In The Room
December 10, 2015 at 6:50 pm
(December 10, 2015 at 6:36 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I believe in God, and if anyone has a problem with it they can suck my vajay.
I have a big problem with it!
When can we start! 
(Lucky I'm first, there's a line starting to form.)
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
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RE: The Not-so-elephant In The Room
December 10, 2015 at 6:53 pm
(December 10, 2015 at 6:36 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I believe in God, and if anyone has a problem with it they can suck my vajay.
Okay, I have a problem with it. Am I next or do I have to take a number?
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RE: The Not-so-elephant In The Room
December 10, 2015 at 6:53 pm
(December 10, 2015 at 6:45 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: How can someone's beliefs be effecting you negatively if they are good people living their own lives the best way they know how and aren't doing anything to hurt anyone?
Their view of "not hurting anyone" may be different depending on their beliefs. That's the problem. Everyone thinks they are the good guys. If you're Catholic, then perhaps abortion is a good example to use. If Catholicism is correct, then abortion could be a terrible atrocity on par with or exceeding the Holocaust*. This would make atheists who support abortion very harmful people indeed, although they believe what they are doing is good. On the other hand, if atheism is true then aborting an insentient blob of cells (leaving later term abortions alone for now) is completely harmless, and all Christians who make this problem central to their lives are wasting enormous amounts of time which could be spent far more productively.
We could think of many more examples like this.
*As a side note, I always felt that if Christianity were true aborting an embryo or fetus would be doing it the favor of sending it directly to heaven. I wish I would have been aborted, if that's the case. But this is beside the point.
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RE: The Not-so-elephant In The Room
December 10, 2015 at 6:54 pm
(December 10, 2015 at 6:45 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: How can someone's beliefs be effecting you negatively if they are good people living their own lives the best way they know how and aren't doing anything to hurt anyone?
It's not what you do. It's what you don't do that is the problem. You would have to see yourself from our perspective to understand what we truly mean by that.
In the case of fundamentalists, it's what they do do, of course. But you're moderate.
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RE: The Not-so-elephant In The Room
December 10, 2015 at 6:55 pm
(December 10, 2015 at 6:40 pm)excitedpenguin Wrote: (December 10, 2015 at 6:36 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Pretty much...unless you have evidence that those fairy tales are real which I strongly doubt.
I was implying you were being an idiot yourself because of your unsophisticated response.
Yeah, common Min, I'm sure we can impress this guy if we put our backs into it. [/sarcasm]
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RE: The Not-so-elephant In The Room
December 10, 2015 at 6:58 pm
(December 10, 2015 at 6:55 pm)Whateverist the White Wrote: (December 10, 2015 at 6:40 pm)excitedpenguin Wrote: I was implying you were being an idiot yourself because of your unsophisticated response.
Yeah, common Min, I'm sure we can impress this guy if we put our backs into it. [/sarcasm]
Just to be sure. You're dissing him, not me, right?
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