Guys: Would you ever rape and murder a girl?

[Excited Penguin]

That's a disgusting thought and frankly you should be ashamed for having it. Your mates seem like sociopaths. I get that this was meant more like a theoretical discussion about morality, but even so, unless something is very wrong with you, you should be naturally repulsed at the thought of raping and killing someone. If you don't see it that way, you should either consult a psychiatrist or try and understand at an intellectual level why we couldn't live in a world where everybody thought it was okay to do that.

Naturally repulsed?  I think that's a key component to 'morality.' We are taught to the point of brainwashing from the time we are born and throughout our lives that things are good and evil, and it's effective as hell.   That makes it easier for half-baked reasoning like "what if everybody thought it was okay" as a reason for an individual not to do something.  

But to the OP, you don't rape and murder, because you don't want to go to jail.  The secondary reason I'd say, is that the benefits of raping and murdering are so minor compared to the cost to the other person in most cases, that it seems unnecessary.  The personal sacrifice for most that goes into not raping and murdering is super duper tiny, to the point of insignificant.

For those to which that doesn't apply, they're going to have at it.  And we just have to settle for sticking them in jail for long periods of time.

That's what we call an idiot, folks.

[Catholic_Lady]

Why would Christians be any different than other people, though? It's not like being Christian magically turns someone's brain into that of a psychopath's. We still feel empathy towards people. Being a psychopath has nothing to do with being either Christian or Atheist.

The thing is we quite often get the "if you don't believe in god why don't yu go on a massive killing spree?" the implication is that the only thing holding these people back is their belief. Don't you find that scary? I do.

I'm pretty sure it's more a bad argument for the existence of God, than it is about them actually doing those things if they didn't believe. That would require them to be psychopaths without empathy, and having that mental disorder has nothing to do with being atheist or Christian.

[Cyberman]

Which makes religious affiliation irrelevant on moral issues. What's revealing is that no gods step in at any point to prevent the killing and rape, even by the followers. To quote Tracey Harris of The Atheist Experience: “You either have a God who sends child rapists to rape children or you have a God who simply watches it and says, ‘When you’re done, I’m going to punish you.' If I could stop a person from raping a child, I would. That’s the difference between me and your God."

[Mark94xCPP]

Thanks for all the replies. I've read through them all. There was some very satisfactory answers. I've come to notice some flaws in my thinking. I've been thinking about the "whole picture" in the universal sense and thought that just because our lives won't matter at a later period of time due to how short our lives are in comparison with the universe, that our lives don't matter at all. And that life has no value. That's obviously not the case. Our lives do matter NOW, we can appreciate it now while we have it regardless whether or not it matters in the long run. I do sometimes find our lives to be futile because of that. However, that doesn't undermine the value of life. I've been on a quest for pure objectivity. I've read your replies on regards to morality. It doesn't make sense for something like morality that has to be analyzed by a "subject" with a developed brain to be completely objective. I've come to realize that. I guess I need to be more "human". I need to come to terms with empathy. I was not trolling, just confused, and a little depressed.

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I will not rape and murder a girl.

[Whateverist]

I've come to realize that. I guess I need to be more "human". I need to come to terms with empathy. I was not trolling, just confused, and a little depressed.

Hope you're feeling better now. Yeah, humanity: what are you going to do? It isn't much but we call it home.

I will not rape and murder a girl.

I'll join you in that pledge .. pending unforeseeable circumstances of course.

[robvalue]

No. I always try never to intentionally hurt any living thing more than necessary.

Morality is a personal thing. If someone simply doesn't care about how others feel, then there is no argument that could make them care. All that is left is pragmatism: you'll go to jail if you get caught doing crime, and generally people will treat you less well if you keep pissing them off.

Most people have empathy, meaning that hurting someone else is kind of like hurting yourself. So generally, such a person simply doesn't want to hurt others. Some people do entirely lack empathy, often through no fault of their own.

"God" has nothing to do with morality. It either offers its opinion, which is still an opinion however well informed, or it enforces behaviour it finds agreeable through threats/rewards.

[Brian37]

The thing is we quite often get the "if you don't believe in god why don't yu go on a massive killing spree?" the implication is that the only thing holding these people back is their belief. Don't you find that scary? I do.

I'm pretty sure it's more a bad argument for the existence of God, than it is about them actually doing those things if they didn't believe. That would require them to be psychopaths without empathy, and having that mental disorder has nothing to do with being atheist or Christian.

Now while we are talking about rape in this thread, much of what distracts humans from naturalistic answers to anything that happens in life is gap filling in the form of god claims and the concept of religion itself. That is not an attack on you personally, but a criticism of human logic.

Our behaviors be they cruel or compassionate, violent or cooperative, sane or mentally ill, are not a result of a deity or devil. Our species did not start off with our modern understanding if nature or even human behavior. Our species evolved to seek patterns, the downside is that we have a tendency to gap fill. In a very neurological sense our brains do that constantly every day without us noticing. It is why we can mistake sounds for things they are not. Why we can misunderstand the facial expressions of others, why we can pick up the wrong flavor soup at the grocery store because it has a similar packaging because we are in a rush. 

Chalking rape up to sin is like chalking up a hurricane to Poseidon. What makes the act of rape bad, isn't that it isn't natural. "Natural" in a scientific sense does not mean desirable to the victim or to their loved ones. It merely means we observe the act in nature. Just like we no longer see Pele the volcano god as being angry at Hawaiians.


Rape unfortunately works in nature, otherwise it would not result in pregnancy. What makes it bad is the physical trauma and emotional trauma to the victim. Much like we react to the damage a tornado causes. We have evolved with empathy which is why, while rape is an unfortunate part of natural reality, most humans will react negatively to it because they have empathy.

Understanding both the good and bad that happen in life through naturalistic means allows us to find ways to minimize the harm that happens. It is why we have gone from blaming the victim for the way they dress to blaming the perp. It is why we understand the behaviors and tactics of the perp. It is also why we have developed support groups for victims. It is because there is a natural psychology to both the perp and the victim.

Where theism goes wrong on is logic, it may bring comfort in explaining why good and bad happen, but they are merely place card placebos. Science explains why rape happens and it also explains why the victim reacts negatively to it. It is also how we catch the perps, in  the form of rape kits that can produce body fluids and DNA.

[LadyForCamus]

Should we necessarily NEED science to explain to us why a victim reacts negatively to rape, though?

[Catholic_Lady]

I will not rape and murder a girl.

Well that's some good news.

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

Only if they make it legal.