Episode VII (spoilers)

[Clueless Morgan]

[Kylo Ren is] a troubled teenager looking for an answer who has been manipulated by the dark side

A teenager, really? I thought he was in his thirties or something, like Leia and Han had him not too very long after the end of the OT and that there's an age-gap between him and Rey and Finn. Rey might be a teenager but she and Finn strike me as being in their early twenties, late teens (18-19) at the youngest.

[thesummerqueen]

Does everyone forget he was terribly wounded during the lightsaber battle?

[Faith No More]

Does everyone forget he was terribly wounded during the lightsaber battle?

He had also just offed his father, which should have ended his being torn by the light side and cemented his path to the dark side. He would have been more powerful than ever. Shouldn't a blaster wound to the abdomen be a minor annoyance when your body is surging with the power you feel from finally embracing the dark side fully?

[thesummerqueen]

I don't think he fully embraced it. I think he tried to by killing his father, and it's not enough.

[thesummerqueen]

And to be honest, it amuses me that we're bitching because he isn't a one-dimensional villain. Even Vader wasn't one-dimensional.

[Whateverist]

It's true that what happens with dark side recruits who aren't trained -at least as a Jedi- from birth is likely to be different than it was back in the day. I found it dissonant but not to any degree that interfered with my enjoyment of the story.

Summer, did you happen to notice who injured him during the duel? If it was either of our young heroes it doesn't really make it easier to understand how a noob and a storm trooper who never trained with a light saber bested him.

[Faith No More]

And to be honest, it amuses me that we're bitching because he isn't a one-dimensional villain. Even Vader wasn't one-dimensional.

One-dimensional or not, consistency is important, and I felt like I was led to believe Kylo Ren was a serious badass that everyone was deathly afraid of. Watching him struggle in a lightsaber duel with someone that had never touched one, wound or not, just didn't feel consistent with the rest of the movie. Perhaps there is some missing element to explain it all, but as the movie stands, it didn't sit right with me.

[Clueless Morgan]

Does everyone forget he was terribly wounded during the lightsaber battle?

He had also just offed his father, which should have ended his being torn by the light side and cemented his path to the dark side.  He would have been more powerful than ever.  Shouldn't a blaster wound to the abdomen be a minor annoyance when your body is surging with the power you feel from finally embracing the dark side fully?

I don't think he necessarily was fully embracing the Dark Side at that moment, like SQ says. My take on the whole exchange between Kylo and Han was that Kylo was deeply conflicted and fighting against his natural compassion and love for his father, so that when he did finally kill him he wasn't surging with Dark Side superpowers, he continued to be conflicted, which might have actually hindered his powers in the saber battle that followed.

Does everyone forget he was terribly wounded during the lightsaber battle?

It's quite clear that he is wounded during that battle, and I've read several articles about how annoying some people (read: some feminists) find it that Rey could "only" win a battle against Kylo if he was terribly wounded, and others (read: antifeminists) saying that she's a lousy character because she could only win against Kylo because he was wounded and possibly debilitated because of the emotional stress of just having killed Han, but I found this to be totally believable from a story POV, and something I feel like I've seen with main leads, too, not just female leads. It's a natural storytelling device: show your hero winning smaller victories so that you believe that when they finally walk into the end battle that they have a chance, that they've learned something, that they can do it.

In the beginning of a saga, the hero can't go up against a fully-powerful nemesis and win or the drama for the rest of the series is cut off at the knees; there's no where to go after that. A "Oh, she's already defeated Kylo at full strength when she's completely untrained? Okay, why even make episodes VIII and IX then? She's already proven she can do it" sort of thing. Yes, Rey defeated Kylo when he was physically (and emotionally?) weakened, but that also sets up a future rematch where they both face off at full strength, both having completed their training, and, if written well, it'll be a really epic sight to see.

[Drich]

Luke is/was (at the end of Jedi) the embodiment of balance as per the resaons explained. Annie when he took out Sidious left the force light side heavy (luke and the Jedi he would train)

I just saw the movie, and before I chime in on it, I wanted to say that I like this theory!  I have always wondered who/if/when the prophecy has been, will be, or was fulfilled.  This makes sense.  Ani starts it by bringing more balance in numbers, and Luke finishes it by showing that a force sensitive person can experience the full range of human emotions without going full on dark side.  I love it, this makes a lot of sense.  And the Skywalkers are basically charged with maintaining that balance, too.  Their offspring go dark, light and neutral.

Thanks!
It's the only way to make sense of the 'prophesy' that i can see, that maintains a true balance. What absolutly sold it for me is Luke's usage of darkside powers in Return of the Jedi (Vader's force choke on the two pig men at Jabba's palace.)
Nothing I have ever read or watched has allowed a Jedi to use a dark side power and not be a sith. Which means Luke has to the first to balance out the force.

Now to the movie.  I loved it!  I kept myself spoiler free, and went in only really knowing it would be action packed.  To those upset about details or "plot hole", it's freaking STar Wars.  It already has a ton of inconsitancies and plot holes.  A few minor new ones are par for the course, and don't detract from this movie at all.

I did the same, and my first time through was like when I was a kid and saw the originals, I was sucked into that world for a couple hours.

It had a lot of similarities to IV...on purpose, clearly.  It is like the wheel of time, things are coming full circle.  It is meant to echo and parallel what happened in the past....and what will surely happen in the future.  I love the ZENnes of it.  I thought it was handled very well.  The blend of old and new was excellent, much less heavy handed than Star Trek.  It felt very organic to me. The tech was all great, felt very OT, but with a little update.

:Thumbsup:

And I just loved Rey!  I was a little skeptical about this new actress, but her performance was fabulous.  Possibly my fav scene in the movie is her using the Jedi mind trick on the storm trooper.  
When Kylo was mind raping her, she resisted.  She pushed him away so hard, she pushed into HIS mind instead!  (echos of Harry Potter and Snape Occulamancy)
Once she did that, a little door had opened to her.  You can see her face when she realizes she can hear the Storm Troopers thoughts.  I love her failed attempts to mind control him, she is afraid and uncertain.  But she gathers her courage and composure, sheds her doubts for just a moment, and succeeds in using it.  I had chills.

Yes!
All very good points!

I am upset Han is dead, but I understand the purpose in the plot, and I think it will become even more important in future movies. 

I heard they are comming out with a Han Movie that is set between E3 and E4, how he meets Chewie, Jabba Lando and the falcon the 'kessle run in 12 parsects etc..'

The new droid was cute as hell without being overly childish.  The guy playing Finn is great, too.  His humor was spot on.

Did you notice the new porkins?

The pacing was good, I never felt too rushed, nor did I find myself at any point wishing they would hurry up and move on with the story.  The end was fantastic!  Climas, followed by a short segway where I'm thinking wth, and then...Luke!  And no words spoken, jsut the gesture, and his face torn by emotion.  Fantastic ending.  
No hamfisted emotional punches, no awkward romance (I thought Finns crush on Rey to be cute, he is such a child in so many ways emotionally, raised as a storm trooper as he was), her reticence yet desperation for companionship.

Wonderful characters, both old and new, a great re-imagining of an old plot, just enough nostalgia for us old geezers, and lots of new and wonderful characters for old and new alike.  Also, MAZ, I LOVE HER!  A force sensitive alien with no training.  I know the bar was destroyed, but I hope she lived and we get to see her again in future movies.  She has some interesting stories to tell, I think.

like how she came across the ESB light saber.

I have about a hundred other thoughts, but looks like this discussion is quieting down.  I wish I'd been able to see it on opening weekend, but I'm glad I got to see it in the theater at all.  We rarely go to movie in the theater, like MAYBE one per year, and I'm just so glad I saw this on the big screen.  I am going to call my little bro and see if I can take him this weekend!  I totally want to see it again.  There was a lot packed in there.  Rey's ATAT home had toms of details (I noticed the x-wing pilot doll so much it distracted me for a good 5 seconds wondering what the hell that could mean? lol), and her vision.  Kylo's dealings with Snoke and his final encounter with Han. Also, does he indeed know who Rey is?  I agree, it appears she was a Padawan during the slaughter.  Luke's daughter?  Just a random survivor of the slaughter? I don't know, but although I know it will be a long time waiting for answers I will enjoy reading and thinking about fan theories in the meantime. 

She was knelt down before Kylo and he had just slaughtered all the other trainees. unless their was a deeper emotional attachment there he would have killed her as well.
He defiantly knew her on a deeper level. Also note his lighsaber rages when ever she gets the better of him. twice he melts down when her actions directly oppose his will, like he ismad at himself for not 'finishing the job.'

This movie far surpasses all of the crappy prequels, and is nestled comfortably in amongst the OT, for me.  

To all the haters, why still in this thread?  Hate it so much you can't stop talking about it?  lol.

(Only real disappointment for me was not seeing Gwendolyn Christie's face. I wanted her to take off that helmet and sneer at someone.  But her stature and voice alone were pretty amazing)

who was that phasma?

[Drich]

Yeah srsly. Like the people who are like "blah SJWarriors suck" are like "no woman could be a storm trooper captain" but seriously have you seen Gwendolyn Christy? Like she is SO fucking badass even Jaime fucking Lannister wants to do her even tho he's only got the hots for his sister.

I think she would have made a good wookie. She is a tank.