Episode VII (spoilers)

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

And to be honest, it amuses me that we're bitching because he isn't a one-dimensional villain. Even Vader wasn't one-dimensional.

One-dimensional or not, consistency is important, and I felt like I was led to believe Kylo Ren was a serious badass that everyone was deathly afraid of.  Watching him struggle in a lightsaber duel with someone that had never touched one, wound or not, just didn't feel consistent with the rest of the movie.  Perhaps there is some missing element to explain it all, but as the movie stands, it didn't sit right with me.

Are you kidding me?
Imagine if she did get beat up by him in that duel.
Can you imagine how the audience would react to a chick getting beat up in the screen?... People would be pissed.. Yeah, explains a lot.

[Drich]

No, saw it again last night. Kylo was illuminated by the fading light of the star, the planet destroyer was sucking dry, and while illuminated he was tearing up and honestly struggling/blubbering on about not doing what he knew he had to do (kill han per snoke's orders), he offered han the light saber with both hands open. han went to grab it with one hand, and just then the light started to fade as the sun was being depleted. which cause kylo to pause in handing the light saber over. then they stood staring at each other, ben with both hands and han with the one hand on the saber. when it when completely dark han started to pull, and so did ben it went back and forth for a second, the ben snatched it away and ran his old man through. chewie screamed and blasted ben with the bow caster. the same weapon that han used to blow storm troopers apart with.

Why would you see the same movie twice at the cinema? What's wrong with you?

Ah, finally, someone who tells it like it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8hQVlRgFlU

"They (Disney) looked at the stories and said 'we want to make something for the fans'. So I said 'all I wanted to do was tell a story about what happened (...)' (...) it's a family soap-opera, ultimately. People don't realise it's actually a soap-opera. And it's all about family problems - it's not about spaceships."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEIrQUXm_hY

"Star Wars is the moment the industry changed."

Lucas replies: "well it changed for the good, and for the bad (...) you can either use it for good or you can use it for evil. And what happens when there's something new, people have a tendency to over-do it. They abuse it. There were two things that got abused with Star Wars. And still being abused. 1. when SW came out everybody said 'oh it's a silly movie it's just a bunch of space battles and stuff; it's not real, there's nothing behind it' (...) And so the spaceships and that part of the science-fantasy got terribly abused and of course everybody went out and made spaceship movies and they were all horrible and they all lost tons of money. (...) And the other part was the technology - which is 'oh we'll just use this new technology it's great' (...) and people just abused it all over the place. (...) The point is the other thing that got abused (naturally in a capitalist society, especially from an American point of view) is the studios and everyone said 'oh wow we could make a lot of money this is a license to kill!' (...) You've got to remember, Star Wars came from nowhere, American Grafitti came from no where, there was nothing like it. Now if you do anything that's not a sequel or not a TV series, or doesn't look like one, they won't do it (...) and it really shows an enormous lack of imagination and a fear of creativity on the part of an industry."


GL himself makes a whole lot of great comments here. The only thing he doesn't explain is why he sold Lucasfilm to Disney, who are well known for churching out bland poorly written, unoriginal money-making sequels instead of simply floating the company and leaving it with a hand picked CEO for the future.

As I mentioned earlier, every one of the five Star Wars sequels/prequels expanded the universe and brought its own story.

The trailer promised a more intimate and serious movie more in the tone of the original trilogy, but what was delivered was an action movie first and foremost with little regard to intimacy, story integrity, or the creativity and imagination of the original trilogy. What we got was bland and predictable.

I saw an interview with lucas where he explains why he sold out to disney. Essentially "it had gotten bigger than himself and wanted to 'pass the torch' and disney was the only company who he looked at that wanted to keep going in the direction he felt the sage should go." They were more or less interested in keeping/not redoing what has already been done. They had the money and desire to be faithful to the brand and not write lucas out.

[Drich]

No what, the new film is simply a bland formalistic piece with nothing new.

Even people who criticise the prequels relentlessly don't say they didn't have a fresh story. And for their flaws, GL has successfully made some really great sequels - and this is something other directors/film-makers often fail at. He delivered Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi, and the two truly great sequels to Raiders of the Lost Ark. Although the prequels may not be great - they're certainly not as terrible as some films which were promoted and endorsed by the original creators. Like James Cameron's glowing endorsement of Terminator Genisys, or William Peter Blatty's endorsement of Exorcist: The Beginning.

GL delivered a clean three-act movie with Star Wars (ANH). Don't get me wrong, that's not the only successful way to structure a movie, but it's by far the most popular and most widely understood by screenwriters and critics. Now when I look at that film what I see is a very strong first act, and a great second act that expands the story. The weak spot in the film is the third act, which only around 20 minutes or so of screen time is devoted to.

Let's talk about just the first act. The first act is where you introduce the protagonist, you have to clearly identify their main strengths and weaknesses, and it has to conclude with the protagonist choosing to follow a clear mission (clear to the audience). In the case of Star Wars, the first act concludes when Luke accepts his mission to go to Alderan to deliver the R2 unit to the resistance, approximately 40 minutes into the film. Now the second act is generally used to expand the mission, and of course grow the character of the protagonist. Many truly great films use this act of the film as a roller-coaster ride for the audience, where the original mission seems to be completed, but gets stopped somehow and often replaced with a more difficult mission. If we look at Star Wars, we see this when they arrive at Alderan to discover that it's been destroyed. But then we also find out that the rebel base is not there, and the protagonist has a new task. But we're getting ahead of ourselves. The first act is used to place the setting, introduce us to the protagonist, tell us who he or she is. Since we know where the first act ends, if we were to write this story we know we need to tell the audience what's going on, and tell them about the character of the protagonist in this part.

Here we find that Luke is a farm-boy who wants to go to the academy. So we know what his ambitions are. We also find out that the Empire is a military dictatorship much despised by the people, at least on Luke's planet, but of course most of them don't want to get involved. This is Luke's weakness. He wants to feel safe, he doesn't want to get involved in the seemingly futile fight against the Galactic Empire. Indeed when he's first offered the chance by Ben to get involved he chooses not to. But when he sees that the Empire has destroyed his family - who were innocent - in an attempt to recover the droids in his possession, he then chooses to follow Ben and help the resistance in their fight against the Empire.

Everything we need to know about the fantasy universe we find ourselves in is explained in the first act - in this case in the first 40 minutes. We learn about the Empire, the Resistance, the Jedi, and what a lightsaber is. We also learn that most people are not willing to fight against the Empire, even though they hate it. We also learn that the Empire has built a doomsday weapon designed to ensure they can't be overthrown, but that the Rebellion poses an active threat against Galactic Empire rule.

Let's talk about why The Phantom Menace was only B-grade. Again the first act of the movie identifies your protagonist, the setting, and what their mission is. The protagonist's decision is what drives the story. Curiously in the Phantom Menace, we have Anakin becoming the central character - but this isn't until the second act of the film. Therefore he can't be the protagonist. It also can't be the Queen, because her true identity is hidden from the viewer until the third act, and she doesn't make a decision to take a mission until the end of the second act of the film. It's also not Obi-Wan Kenobi, because he spends the whole movie doing what his master Qui-Gon tells him to do, spends lengthy periods of time away from the action (such as on Tatooine where he stays in the ship), and doesn't accept his own mission (to train Anakin) until well into the third act of the film. Therefore he can't be the protagonist either. That leaves us with only Qui-Gon Jinn who must be the film's protagonist. Next let's identify when he accepts his mission - that's easy.

His original mission in the film, when it begins, is to open negotiations with the Trade Federation to end their blockade at Naboo. When that fails, he and his apprentice escape to Naboo, where they first meet the Gungans, and then the Queen. And this is where he accepts his mission - to see the Queen safely to Coruscant. Yet this is only 24 minutes into the movie - so the first act is very short. Also, he completes this mission without a problem in the second act of the film. So now we've identified the structural problems with the film - he shouldn't have been able to complete his mission until the third act. The whole point of the three act structure is that this is when the original problem gets resolved.

Now you might say "Ah, but in Star Wars they also get to their destination in the second act" - but this is not so. Although they do arrive at Alderan, Luke's actual mission is to take the droids to the Rebellion, not to simply arrive at a location. But in Phantom Menace it's made abundantly clear that Qui-Gon's mission is simply to see the Queen of Naboo safely to Coruscant.

So this tells me how I have to structure the rest of the film. The second act is where we develop Qui-Gon's character, and where possible we have failed attempts to complete his mission, where new obstacles arise. But Phantom Menace doesn't do this - instead the mission is completed around 1h20m into the film. Furthermore there's little attempt made to develop Qui-Gon's character.

So you might say - well the mission isn't to take the Queen to Coruscant, the mission is to drive out the Trade Federation. But this can't be the case, because Qui-Gon's original mission at the start of the film is to present a diplomatic solution to do just that; thus since it's his pre-existing mission in the movie he can't make a decision later on to make that his mission. So to summarise, the main problems with the film are all to do with the story's structure, and with not developing the character of the film's protagonist. When you look at the film yourself you might see other flaws in it, but those are the main ones from which the more obvious flaws arise.

The third act of the film all revolves around the Queen's decision to return to Naboo and fight. But she makes this decision at the end of the 2nd act, thus it doesn't drive the story up to that point. Also, Qui-Gon's decision to free Anakin and train him also does not drive the film's story.

So then let's look back at when Qui-Gon makes the decision to accept his mission. In that scene he also appears to want to uncover the motivations of the Trade Federation. Ah so perhaps that decision is what drives the film then? Sadly - no. Although he does express interest in it, he doesn't make a clear decision to uncover the conspiracy at work. And furthermore they don't uncover the conspiracy, nor do they really attempt to for the remainder of the film. So for all intents and purposes, the third act represents a brand new mission for Qui-Gon. One which he argues against as a matter of fact, but as the film's protagonist it should be his endeavours to complete the mission he accepted in the conclusion of the first act that drives the movie.

Now, Episode VII suffers every possible problem imaginable for a bland formulaic movie. The protagonist's journey doesn't drive it. The protagonist makes their decision way too early in the film, and we're never shown what their weaknesses are (not to mention little effort is given to flesh out her character in the first act). Little to no effort is made to explain the film's setting to the audience, instead with the film-makers simply assuming that the audience is familiar with the subject matter. There is little-to-no character development of the protagonist  in the second act of the film. With a sequel such as this, the first act of the movie is where you should be introducing the audience to a new setting, which begins to expand the fantasy universe, and the second act should be used to expand it further still. Yet this never happens in TFA. We're not even introduced to the New Republic.

If what you want to see is a flashy big-budget movie with lots of special effects, and doesn't take any risks, then go right ahead and tell me this movie is amazing. But if you want a fresh story, with new ideas, and a well put together original plot - this movie delivers none of them. All it delivers is flashy action with a predictable plot that follows ANH as closely as possible.

Their is a very simply answer to your 3 act dilemma.

What if the movies themselves are the individual acts rather than being 3 independent movies containing 3 acts, they are acts viewed from a completed triology perspective?

Then Anikin does indeed become the protagonist in the first act, and his story arch spans the whole trilogy.

After all when Lucas was asked about the OT he said originally it was one story and when he started to make the screen play he realized very quickly he had too much content to just do one film, that was why he was so obsessed in completing the OT. So why can't the same be true here?

[Drich]

I saw this movie a couple of days ago...
Nice entertainment value...
Nice SFX...
The story... well... too reminiscent of star wars, the original movie, which was later called "episode IV":
- Droid lost in desert planet holding some important piece of information
- Droid found by person who has some connection with the Force, but is unaware of it.
- Person and droid go off-planet to join the rebellion
- Big bad guys have a super-weapon which "is no moon".
- Newly found friend of main person get killed by main antagonist. (What is it with all the gaping chasms in Star Wars? I wouldn't be caught dead on that flimsy walkway - not even a measly safety handrail...)
- Rebels manage to destroy said weapon with a handful of X-wings. (seriously, I was expecting such a planet-sized battle station to have more than 10 tie fighters, when they are ALL requested to engage the enemy).


Apart from that, I really liked the actress playing Rey.
And the passion and dedication in Finn were spot on!


On the other hand... how the heck does that hologram guy get to be in charge of the galactic empire's remnants?! And, just out of luck, he gets to "seduce" the new impressionable kid, who's probably the second most powerful Force user in the Galaxy?
"always two there are, a master and an apprentice", I know... but these seem to have showed up right after the previous two got busted! Come one! Some consistency! Where do they get so many dark Force experts from?!

Right after??? 30+ years has gone by or hasn't Leigha's and luke's haggard appearance given you a good idea of the time that has passed?

[Drich]

While I agree with that criticism, that's one of the more minor problems of the film. Basically what you're saying is that the transition between the end of Return of the Jedi, and the start of Force Awakens doesn't make comprehensible sense. Whereas if you were to look at any other two adjoining Star Wars films, the audience can follow the narrative that exists off-screen between movies. They flow in an easily comprehensible direction. But in TFA, we don't at all understand how we got there. If anything the New Republic should be at the height of their age now following the downfall of the Empire. That's where the film should have begun - but instead we have a threat to the New Republic that simply overthrows it with no resistance. Why can't the New Republic defend themselves from such a threat? Why did not retaliate directly against the New Order.

As I said earlier the film simply makes no sense. The Old Republic was overthrown from within - and that's generally how great and powerful societies do get overthrown. It happened with Nazi Germany, it happened centuries earlier in Egypt for example - they lost their entire existing culture because they converted to Islam - and for over a millennia no one could even read Egyptian hieroglyphs!

What in the movie made you think the New republic was not at the height of his power?
What in the movie made you think the new republic has been over thrown?
Granted the central government has been destroyed and no doubt their will be turmoil but I do not see a galactic wide government being completely destroyed by what amounts to a scaled up version of the 9/11 attacks.

[Drich]

I also had some questions about the Finn character and his transition from faceless minion to emotional vulnerability.  I love the idea of cracking open a storm trooper uniform and looking at the humanity inside.  But I agree the transition seems a bit glib.

But the character I'm still having the most trouble with is the new #2 bad guy.  His light saber dustups with control rooms strikes me as odd.  Aren't dark side guys supposed to have all the Jedi training plus a dispassionate something more?  He just seems way too emotional and unfocussed to me.  But I'm withholding judgement until future episodes backfill his story.

But did these two cracks ruin the experience for me?  No way.

At the end of the movie when Snoke was telling the new general to abandon the star killer base to "bring kylo back to me so as to Finish his trainning." Meaning his inablity to control his rage is part and parcel to his 'padawan' sith status. I also think his loss of control along with his doubts about his attachment to the darkside speaks volumes to his need to collect the relics of greater more powerful sith of the past. (Vader's helmet, Knights of Ren title and light saber, Darth Reven's helmet) Not to mention Rey's reverse mind rape on him revealing his 'fear.'

[Drich]

It's apparently really *really* important to Anomalo and Aractus that the convince us that this movie is really awful. Why else would they still be here pages and pages in trying to tell us why we're wrong when we say anything good about it at all?

And now you know my plite.

Some people simply like to argue. If you say the sky is blue they will tell you it is brown. their is rarely a legitimate reason behind it out side of simply being different.

[pocaracas]

"always two there are, a master and an apprentice", I know... but these seem to have showed up right after the previous two got busted! Come one! Some consistency! Where do they get so many dark Force experts from?!

Right after??? 30+ years has gone by or hasn't Leigha's and luke's haggard appearance given you a good idea of the time that has passed?

How long did Palpatine take to come to power?

[Drich]

I think this actually works. The Jedi order are gone so the new recruits for Sith Lords are relatively untrained. Kylo Ren is also not fully trained by the dark side either. He's a troubled teenager looking for an answer who has been manipulated by the dark side (analogy for Muslim extremism anyone?). If he had the self control then there wouldn't be a question of whether Leia and Hans Solo could save him.

Yeah, but it just wasn't believable that Kylo Ren was a total badass for the entire movie until he gets into a lightsaber fight with a woman that has just discovered she even has Force powers.  He was able to break Poe's will with the force, but then he struggles in a lightsaber fight against a stormtrooper and a noob?  I'm with Anomalocaris on this one.  It just wasn't consistent and left me with a bad taste in my mouth.

..and just who was kylo supposed to be sparing with to make him such a light saber master? Not to point out the obvious but look at the grace and elegant use of the lightsaber fights between obi and vader in E3 verse, anyone in this movie. They are all hacks! kylo has one or two levels of expertise above the either finn or rey. Rey has one lunge/stabbing move she tries 3 different times, which could easily be exploited by a trained swordsman. it obvious kylo is no vader with a light saber. His 'strength' is obviously the use of the force.

which the force requires concentration to use. something hard to do with a big hole in your side

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

It's apparently really *really* important to Anomalo and Aractus that the convince us that this movie is really awful. Why else would they still be here pages and pages in trying to tell us why we're wrong when we say anything good about it at all?

And now you know my plite.

Some people simply like to argue. If you say the sky is blue they will tell you it is brown. their is rarely a legitimate reason behind it out side of simply being different.

lol.
The movie sucked balls. You're just too excited about the movie to see its obvious flaws. Everything felt wrong, like the style of the movie was slowly drifting away from the style that of the previous star wars movies. Kind of felt like an independent film tbh, like it no longer had the feel of a regular ol' star wars movie. And not to mention lots of bull like that chick suddenly going all Jackie chan on the supposedly feared-by-everyone dark side stealth ninja with the badass voice.

People have actually given reason for why the movie wasn't all that great as its hyped to be. Actually pretty long lists..
I wonder if you blind fans(I myself am a fan) have some reasons for why the movie was supposedly the best..