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RE: Intelligent Design
January 5, 2016 at 8:53 am
* Basic particles like atoms and such are designed. As I have shown before.
* Our world is comprised of basic particles.
* Therefore everything around us is designed.
PS, If you think there is a problem with my definition of design then present your case. I have altered my definition in such a manner so that it doesn't comprise of everything after some criticism of the older one, so I have already rectified the problem, if there is another problem, present the problem.
Also, it's not illegal to make up your own definitions as long as it confirms with reality. 
PPS, The only real argument against this should be targeted at how atoms or basic particles and such are not designed, anything else is a waste.
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RE: Intelligent Design
January 5, 2016 at 8:58 am
(This post was last modified: January 5, 2016 at 9:00 am by The Grand Nudger.)
By your own definitions and distinctions, they are not. Atoms are a product of natural forces just as we are a product of natural forces.
Which is more important to you? The distinction you made, so that everything wasn't designed...or the claim that atoms are designed (and thusly everything is designed)? You can only maintain one or the other, rationally. They are mutually exclusive.
The truth of whether atoms are designed is irrelevant until we can iron this out.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Intelligent Design
January 5, 2016 at 9:16 am
(January 5, 2016 at 8:58 am)Rhythm Wrote: By your own definitions and distinctions, they are not. Atoms are a product of natural forces just as we are a product of natural forces.
Which is more important to you? The distinction you made, so that everything wasn't designed...or the claim that atoms are designed (and thusly everything is designed)? You can only maintain one or the other, rationally. They are mutually exclusive.
The truth of whether atoms are designed is irrelevant until we can iron this out.
It is very much relevant.
It is basically one of the reasons why I think we are a product of ID.
If it is wrong, then my whole everything would be wrong.
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RE: Intelligent Design
January 5, 2016 at 10:02 am
Then demonstrate that it's correct. Don't keep shifting the burden of proof.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Intelligent Design
January 5, 2016 at 12:02 pm
(January 5, 2016 at 10:02 am)Stimbo Wrote: Then demonstrate that it's correct. Don't keep shifting the burden of proof.
I kind of did that in my previous posts...
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RE: Intelligent Design
January 5, 2016 at 12:10 pm
(This post was last modified: January 5, 2016 at 12:13 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
It's a complete non issue Pool. You ruled them out (atoms) as having been designed, so there's no chance of them being intelligently designed. Resemblance of a design due to natural causes is not a design, remember? If natural causes account for what appears to be design to you, then it isn't design...according to you.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Intelligent Design
January 5, 2016 at 12:13 pm
Quote:Okay, I get it now.
The problem with my usage of design is that it can be interpreted as however I like. Right?
Because I can look at an apple and say that it is designed because of the obvious constraints imposed on it.
But I already said before that there is an obvious difference between a design and a design achieved from random events or natural causes.
How about this:
Fixed constraints intelligently imposed on a system implies a design.
So consider a rock.
What makes a rock you find on the ground that is the identical to a rock molded by a human in a lab any different?
After all the rock you find on the ground will have the exact same constraints as that of the rock you molded in the lab right?
The main difference is that the rock made in the lab had it's constraints imposed onto itself by an intelligent being whereas the rock in the road had it's constraints imposed onto it by natural causes or random events.
Another difference is that the rock made in the lab will have it's constraints fixed whereas the rock in the ground got it's constraints(like shape, size etc) the way it is through lots of natural causes and is ever changing.
Main points:
* Design implies intelligent action.
* Resemblance of a design due to natural causes is not a design because of its fluctuating constraints.
Like take hydrogen for example, it's atomic number, protons and other constraints are fixed.
Exactly like the constraints on the rock made in a lab are fixed. If the constraints on the rock are altered by another intelligent being then it becomes another design, but if the constraints are altered by natural causes or random events then it is no longer a design.
So ask yourself this,
Has the constraints of something like an element like Hydrogen changed in the history of earth or even our universe? No?
Well then we know it's constraints are fixed.
If it is fixed then it is imposed. (Like assigning an integer variable in a program the value 5. It is imposed.)
If it is imposed there was an intelligent being responsible.
If there was an intelligent being responsible, then it is a design.
Do I win something already? Or am I still not making sense? Bounce Ball
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RE: Intelligent Design
January 5, 2016 at 12:16 pm
(This post was last modified: January 5, 2016 at 12:26 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
If you insist upon hitting the merry go round when someone calls you on your bullshit, fine. I don't require that you prove your proposition to be correct, I simply want it to be an internally consistent proposition. So, is everything designed again? Then the word design means nothing....again. It would be impossible to demonstrate that anything was, indeed, designed. There's no point of reference for the term. We're back again at a non cog claim....and we still haven't shown any imposition.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Intelligent Design
January 5, 2016 at 12:26 pm
(January 5, 2016 at 12:02 pm)pool Wrote: (January 5, 2016 at 10:02 am)Stimbo Wrote: Then demonstrate that it's correct. Don't keep shifting the burden of proof.
I kind of did that in my previous posts...
Well, clearly you kind of didn't or this discussion would be over; and you wouldn't be resorting to the "prove me wrong" gambit.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Intelligent Design
January 5, 2016 at 12:31 pm
(This post was last modified: January 5, 2016 at 12:32 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Pretty sure we're going to need a sensible claim nestled within a valid structure before we get around to demonstration. Pools failure to demonstrate the truth of a non-sensible position is hardly surprising.
If you think you've demonstrated that atoms, and thus the world and all things in it are designed, Pool...take it to a journal, right now. I want to see my name in the references.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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