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RE: Intelligent Design
January 5, 2016 at 1:59 pm
(January 5, 2016 at 1:02 pm)pool Wrote: (January 5, 2016 at 12:59 pm)Esquilax Wrote: I'm sorry... how did you determine that an atom is designed, again?
Like take hydrogen for example, it's atomic number, protons and other constraints are fixed.
Exactly like the constraints on the rock made in a lab are fixed. If the constraints on the rock are altered by another intelligent being then it becomes another design, but if the constraints are altered by natural causes or random events then it is no longer a design.
So ask yourself this,
Has the constraints of something like an element like Hydrogen changed in the history of earth or even our universe? No?
Well then we know it's constraints are fixed.
If it is fixed then it is imposed. (Like assigning an integer variable in a program the value 5. It is imposed.)
If it is imposed there was an intelligent being responsible.
If there was an intelligent being responsible, then it is a design.
Do I win something already? Or am I still not making sense? :Bounce Ball:
The part I bolded is where you go off the rails. You have no where, so far as I'm aware, done other than merely assert that fixed constraints are imposed. How would you propose to even verify such a claim?
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RE: Intelligent Design
January 5, 2016 at 2:00 pm
(January 5, 2016 at 1:40 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Pool, lol....
Quote:Perhaps I should've worded , everything around us is a result of intelligent design?
If you think so, then you have no examples for things which aren't the product of intelligent design. You wouldn't know what a thing that wasn't a product of intelligent design would even look like. I don't know how you could make any determination between designed or not designed, if you don't know what one of those things is. If there is no example in your experience. In what way is an atom designed, whereas a rock is not? Don't you think it would be prudent to step it back farther than atoms, since atoms already have an explanation which is functionally and methodologically identical to an explanation of a rock? As in, "atoms are a product of natural forces...and it is these natural forces which are designed."
Of course I have an example of something that is not IDed, a rock in the sand.
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RE: Intelligent Design
January 5, 2016 at 2:00 pm
(This post was last modified: January 5, 2016 at 2:01 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
That would be a product of ID as equally and for the same reasons as atoms. If a rock in the sand is not an example of ID, then neither is an atom.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Intelligent Design
January 5, 2016 at 2:03 pm
(This post was last modified: January 5, 2016 at 2:04 pm by ErGingerbreadMandude.)
(January 5, 2016 at 1:59 pm)Crossless1 Wrote: (January 5, 2016 at 1:02 pm)pool Wrote: Like take hydrogen for example, it's atomic number, protons and other constraints are fixed.
Exactly like the constraints on the rock made in a lab are fixed. If the constraints on the rock are altered by another intelligent being then it becomes another design, but if the constraints are altered by natural causes or random events then it is no longer a design.
So ask yourself this,
Has the constraints of something like an element like Hydrogen changed in the history of earth or even our universe? No?
Well then we know it's constraints are fixed.
If it is fixed then it is imposed. (Like assigning an integer variable in a program the value 5. It is imposed.)
If it is imposed there was an intelligent being responsible.
If there was an intelligent being responsible, then it is a design.
Do I win something already? Or am I still not making sense? :Bounce Ball:
The part I bolded is where you go off the rails. You have no where, so far as I'm aware, done other than merely assert that fixed constraints are imposed. How would you propose to even verify such a claim?
Can you provide an example where fixed constraints are not imposed? So that I can think more about your point?
I can provide an example for when fixed constraints are imposed, like take a particle accelerator for example.
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RE: Intelligent Design
January 5, 2016 at 2:04 pm
(This post was last modified: January 5, 2016 at 2:05 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
If a tree falls on a stream, the rate of flow is constrained, fixed by the mass and orientation of the obstruction. Pro-tip, try to avoid equivocation /w the term imposition.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Intelligent Design
January 5, 2016 at 2:05 pm
(This post was last modified: January 5, 2016 at 2:10 pm by ErGingerbreadMandude.)
(January 5, 2016 at 2:00 pm)Rhythm Wrote: That would be a product of ID as equally and for the same reasons as atoms. If a rock in the sand is not an example of ID, then neither is an atom.
The reasons are different.
The constraints of an atom are fixed whereas the constraints of a rock is not, it possesses fluctuating constraints.
For example: The constraints of the rock such as it's shape and it's weight may change whereas the [all the technical shit] of an atom under observation are fixed.
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RE: Intelligent Design
January 5, 2016 at 2:07 pm
(January 5, 2016 at 2:04 pm)Rhythm Wrote: If a tree falls on a stream, the rate of flow is constrained, fixed by the mass and orientation of the obstruction. Pro-tip, try to avoid equivocation /w the term imposition.
Are you telling me that the rate of flow is constrained for all eternity from there after? If you are not, then you are wrong. If you are, then you are wrong.
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RE: Intelligent Design
January 5, 2016 at 2:11 pm
(This post was last modified: January 5, 2016 at 2:13 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(January 5, 2016 at 2:05 pm)pool Wrote: (January 5, 2016 at 2:00 pm)Rhythm Wrote: That would be a product of ID as equally and for the same reasons as atoms. If a rock in the sand is not an example of ID, then neither is an atom.
The reasons are different.
The constraints of an atom are fixed whereas the constraints of a rock is not, it possessed fluctuating constraints. In what way are the constraints of a rock fluctuating, lol?
(January 5, 2016 at 2:07 pm)pool Wrote: Are you telling me that the rate of flow is constrained for all eternity from there after? If you are not, then you are wrong. If you are, then you are wrong.
As fixed as the constraints of an atom, yeah. You know...the things that both the obstruction, the water, and the affecting environment (like....rocks...) around them are all made of.........
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Intelligent Design
January 5, 2016 at 2:14 pm
(January 5, 2016 at 2:11 pm)Rhythm Wrote: (January 5, 2016 at 2:05 pm)pool Wrote: The reasons are different.
The constraints of an atom are fixed whereas the constraints of a rock is not, it possessed fluctuating constraints. In what way are the constraints of a rock fluctuating, lol?
(January 5, 2016 at 2:07 pm)pool Wrote: Are you telling me that the rate of flow is constrained for all eternity from there after? If you are not, then you are wrong. If you are, then you are wrong.
As fixed as the constraints of an atom, yeah. You know...the things that both the obstruction, the water, and the affecting environment (like....rocks...) around them are all made of.........
Put the rock in extreme weather conditions and it's shape, size and those kinds of shiz fluctuate.
Whereas, put an atom in extreme weather conditions and lol, it stays the same.
The former is not fixed constraints. The latter is fixed constraints.
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RE: Intelligent Design
January 5, 2016 at 2:23 pm
(This post was last modified: January 5, 2016 at 2:27 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(January 5, 2016 at 2:14 pm)pool Wrote: Put the rock in extreme weather conditions and it's shape, size and those kinds of shiz fluctuate. I could quote Esquis entire post..but instead I'll just say, "So?" So what if the rock becomes sand, or gravel..or erodes completely. That doesn't change the constraints for rock..that's just what happened to one individual rock.
Quote:Whereas, put an atom in extreme weather conditions and lol, it stays the same.
Is that what steam is all about, huh.
Quote:The former is not fixed constraints. The latter is fixed constraints.
If you'd mentioned upfront, that you were arguing for another pet definition of another term.....this would have gone alot easier. Atoms have no purchase for you. Natural law affects those atoms just as surely (and often by the same process) as it affects a rock, which you would expect..since rocks are made of atoms after all.
You'll need to shove your intelligent design somewhere smaller, somewhere subatomic.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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