Intelligent Design

[AAA]

Okay, you know biology.
But what exactly is your point?
Are you arguing the point "These are so complex that it's obvious it was designed."

Well my basic point is that the systems in the cell work together in such a way that if they were designed, the designer had incredible intelligence that is truly awe inspiring. No I'm not saying so complex, therefore God. it's: we know how it works, it works like a designed system, other explanations fall short, therefore designer is a reasonable conclusion.

[Silver]

therefore designer is a reasonable conclusion.

Not at all.

[AAA]

Well, you DO need mRNA to make proteins. Unless you think amino acids form and combine themselves into functional structures by themselves. Sure a few amino acids form in nature rarely, but they don't bind to each other, especially not in forms nearly as elaborate as a protein.

It's not as if you -don't- think this happened....you just think that it happened by magic.  Honestly man, what's the point, wtf are you doing here?

It's hardly magic. Why couldn't a being arrange molecules into nucleotides and amino acids, then arrange those into a sequence capable of interacting based on chemical specificity? Why is that magic to you

[The Grand Nudger]

The designers intelligence seems to be matched only by it's incompetence.  A wash in my book.

It's not magic, to me...I only see natural processes. You're the one that sees an extra-dimensional intelligence with a goal in mind. You tell me why it's so magical, you obviously think that it was...because it just -couldn't- be natural processes...huh?

[Silver]

Why is that magic to you

Because that being cannot be proven to exist.

Atheists rely upon evidence. When evidence is provided, we willingly change our minds about that which we formerly misunderstood.

[KevinM1]

Okay, you know biology.
But what exactly is your point?
Are you arguing the point "These are so complex that it's obvious it was designed."

Well my basic point is that the systems in the cell work together in such a way that if they were designed, the designer had incredible intelligence that is truly awe inspiring. No I'm not saying so complex, therefore God. it's: we know how it works, it works like a designed system, other explanations fall short, therefore designer is a reasonable conclusion.

What are you comparing it to to determine that 'it works like a designed system'? Do you have any applicable counterexamples of undesigned/emergent systems?

[AAA]

Well my basic point is that the systems in the cell work together in such a way that if they were designed, the designer had incredible intelligence that is truly awe inspiring. No I'm not saying so complex, therefore God. it's: we know how it works, it works like a designed system, other explanations fall short, therefore designer is a reasonable conclusion.

What are you comparing it to to determine that 'it works like a designed system'?  Do you have any applicable counterexamples of undesigned/emergent systems?

We compare it to things with known causes. For example, we know computer systems to have a designer. We know coal/diamonds/sand etc. to not be designed. We then compare the qualities of life (such as a DNA code, RNA, Proteins, and their ability to interact in specific ways to accomplish a goal) to the qualities of the things to which the cause is known. The fact is that only known cause things that resemble these features is an intelligent causal agent. Therefore, based on the method of historical science outlined by Newton, and later by Darwin, we can infer design. Now there may be some other explanation, but the theories for abiogenesis all have serious problems, and evolution also has problems.

[God of Mr. Hanky]

So why aren't you helping NASA look for it on Mars, instead of shitting all over their efforts to sort out the truth?


There's a very simple way of finding out: Dive to the bottom of a mid-Atlantic hydrothermal vent and collect samples of the many fish, crustaceans and eels which survive there off food sources which are not based on photosynthesis, but chemosynthesis from highly toxic hydrogen sulfide. Take them home, put them in your aquarium, and feed them OTC fish food, then see how long they last.

Can't afford to rent a deep-sea submersible or robo-diver? Here's an easy way - take a fish out of water anywhere, and see how long it lasts out of the water.

Well, why else, short of utter desperation, would you post anything nearly so stupid as that idea?



Ok, first it was the fine-tuning argument based on asserted impossibilities, and now with that can of shit unpacked for you life is just too complicated. YOU are the one who's complicated (profoundly so), and to say something so pathetically weak as that shows how desperate you are to go on believing what you say.

Life is not too complicated, it simply evolves in any way that it can, and we probably don't know all the possible ways that it can do this on our own planet. It does not look like design, not one bit. It looks like what happened because it had to, just as the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics calls for it. Life increases entropy (now there's your meaning of it for you)!

That is SO not what I meant by designed to live everwhere. I didn't mean every organism was able to live in each environment, I meant that there were organisms designed for each environment.

Well, why should a perfect and all-powerful creator, who can tweak anything to do anything want to bend around all the different environments, when he could either make them all the same, or all species capable of surviving from any available energy resources or raw materials?

[God of Mr. Hanky]

No I'm not saying so complex, therefore God. it's: we know how it works, it works like a designed system, other explanations fall short, therefore designer is a reasonable conclusion.

That is an opinion, and you haven't a single fact to prove one single word of it. But isn't life easy when you can get others to believe you have the complete answer to their questions, the only one that doesn't fall short when you never really tell them a single word of truth?

[God of Mr. Hanky]

It's not as if you -don't- think this happened....you just think that it happened by magic.  Honestly man, what's the point, wtf are you doing here?

It's hardly magic. Why couldn't a being arrange molecules into nucleotides and amino acids, then arrange those into a sequence capable of interacting based on chemical specificity? Why is that magic to you

The book of Genesis says your god spoke, and then it happened. Being so taciturn as his directions were according to this account (e.g., "Let there be man"), it's amazing we didn't come out a whole lot worse - I mean, those aren't very specific directions to whoever was working for him at the time. Oh, so he worked completely alone - well, ok. Then guess they had to be magical words, which knew what to do on their own as they stretched out accross the .....billions....of....plasma clouds and .... galaxies .... and ....................... finally ...... to ....... our own little solar system.