Richard Dawkins Faith In Memes Is As Blind As A Christian's to God

[Autumnlicious]

seriously, some of the attitudes on here are so childish. i'm sorry to have upset you dawkins disciples. it is clear to question anything of the man is a great sin in here. if not one of you can see the double standard in believing in memes when there is no evidence for them then (but there is evidence! they exist in our minds as a concept so it must be true!) well, actually, what did i expect from an internet forum? no wonder dawkins closed his one down.

i will leave you all to agree on everything.

'the man who knows he knows something knows he knows nothing at all' - some of you could do with learning that.

Oh dear me - we must be Dawkin's disciples for finding your logic invalid.

In that case, anyone who dares question your faulty logic and your lack of knowledge in this area must be part of some conspiracy.

Fuck off you ignorant troll.

[In This Mind]

Undeniable proof memes exist:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOU8GIRUd_g

[Edwardo Piet]

Correct. Any viral is a meme. That is all they are defined as... and since there is evidence of virals - they're basically self evident!!! - then that's evidence of memes.

Memes are just concepts that evolve... ideas that evolve... the evolution of culture - the Zeitgeist - this is all obvious stuff.

There is evidence for the meme - or concept - of God too. Just as there is of the Easter Bunny. But God himself on the other hand is another matter.

This is getting old... the amount of times I've made that point on these forums or whatever... but meh! It's efficient and makes sense as a response.

EvF

[chatpilot]

Cecco wrote: "1) Richard Dawkins says god exists only as a meme.

2) There is as little evidence of memes existing as there is god.

Does anyone else see the double standard here?"

Way too funny Cecco, it seems to me like you got caught in the old circular reasoning wagon lol. Memes are ideas and concepts and since we all have those that is evidence enough that they exist. They may not exist in the physical sense of existing but they are just as real.

[Cecco]

right, i'm gonna bring it down to your level.

ATTENTION DICKHEADS!

an 'idea' is a concept, abstract, i.e. the concept of culture.

a 'meme' is a UNIT of a cultural idea.

a UNIT! a thing. the scientists working on it hope to find it's version of DNA one day. it is not just a concept, it is spoken of scientifically, materialistically.

this whole idea that natural selection lifts itself into the path of truth over ignorance is a gross misunderstanding of darwinism. honesty and truth have little or nothing to do with survival, and therefore the future of the human race will not be an honest and truthfull one, i.e. will not be atheist, so give up trying to destroy religion. however, destroying the power of the church is another thing altogether. that can be achieved. but we are religious, dishonest to self-deceiving creatures.

you are all dreaming of a science utopia, and just like all other utopias, it can only exist in the projected future of a human. utopias never exist in the present.

[Scented Nectar]

a 'meme' is a UNIT of a cultural idea.

a UNIT! a thing. the scientists working on it hope to find it's version of DNA one day. it is not just a concept, it is spoken of scientifically, materialistically.

Oh quit being such a moron. That's one misrepresentation after another. Cough up something to show this wacky claim that they are looking for its DNA. What the fuck are they going to extract it from? Analyzing the popularity and spread of ideas, as well as their survivability, is not a matter of physical genetics. Are they going to set out nets and catch a wild meme? Get serious please.

Where are you getting this crap from anyways? Are these weird ideas you have about what others are doing and saying from your own head, or is someone feeding you all this bullshit?

[Cecco]

wiki: Dawkins defined the meme as a unit of cultural transmission, or a unit of imitation, but later definitions would vary. The lack of a consistent, rigorous, and precise understanding of what typically makes up one unit of cultural transmission remains a problem in debates about memetics.[12] In contrast, the concept of genetics gained concrete evidence with the discovery of the biological functions of DNA. In the context of the exact sciences, memetics suffers in comparison because, unlike the idea of genes, memes do not necessarily have or need a concrete medium in order to transfer.

'memes do not necessarily have or need a concrete medium' is another way of saying 'we don't know for sure whether or not memes need a concrete medium'. the reason they use the word 'necessarily' is because they can't use the word 'definitely' because they don't know. like i say, they do not talk of memes as merely an abstract concept, but as a unit, making it measurable; making it a science. they are still trying to define what one unit of a meme is, and have come up with nothing concrete yet. i would then make the probably arrogant claim to suggest that there are people working on finding out what one unit consists of. so that is why they are looking for it's version of DNA.

and why don't you cough up where dawkins says that a meme is nothing more than a concept? cough up where dawkins says it in an entity without physicality?

[downbeatplumb]

and why don't you cough up where dawkins says that a meme is nothing more than a concept? cough up where dawkins says it in an entity without physicality?

here you go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEVt5e2w32w

[Scented Nectar]

Cecco, the very first paragraph in the wiki article you are quoting has this (my bold - I bolded it for a reason):

Supporters of the concept regard memes as cultural analogues to genes, in that they self-replicate and respond to selective pressures.[3]

[Cecco]

yes, it is analogous to the evolution of genes, i fail to see your point. if memes exist then whether or not their predicted behaviour is similar in method to genetic evolution or not says nothing about it being a non-entity. just that it operates similar in style.

and where does it say in that video that a meme is nothing more than a concept? he even talks of a 'meme pool'. where would this meme pool exist? only inside our minds? like a soul? if something can't be measured then it is no science. memes cannot be measured. dawkins uses memes as a way to explain god. dawkins uses a nonmeasurable unit to describe why we think of god. it is not exact science. not even close.