Richard Dawkins Faith In Memes Is As Blind As A Christian's to God

[Cecco]

i didn't ask you what mattered in the similarity. i asked you which selection mechanisms didn't matter, cos you said some selection mechanisms didn't matter. also, the selection IS the mechanism. and you say john gray knows nothing of evolution! sheesh.

but ignore all that because i have the final nail in the coffin that proves memetics isn't science. should have done this a long time ago:

the definition of science: (drum roll) knowledge covering general truths of the operation of general laws, as obtained and tested through scientific method [and] concerned with the physical world.

with the PHYSICAL world.

as many of you have said many times, memes are not physical, therefor they are not science.

you've been great.

[Scented Nectar]

and if you were to muster the courage to delve further into his work you would find that he is very well versed in evolution. until you know more about him, do not decide for yourself what he knows and what he doesn't. a glance at wikipedia does not bring all the answers.

and i think 'Why would I be interested in his non-meme stuff when I'm not even very impressed with what he wrote on memes' sums up your attitude entirely: if a man isn't agreeable on everything, then he is not agreeable at all.

Get over it. I've never even heard of him before your mention of him. Why would you expect me to be nuts about him like you are? If what you quoted was more interesting, and not as full of misconceptions as it appears, then maybe I would have been interested in other stuff he writes. Or not. It's not reasonable for you to quote someone I've never heard of and then expect me to go chasing after everything he's ever read before having an opinion about the quoted part. Also, where did I declare that he's not agreeable at all? How the fuck would I know that when I'm not interested enough in his other stuff to even know if I agree?

Hahah, you are him, aren't you? The misconception stuff is too similar. Or is it that you are getting all your wrong ideas about memes from him?

---

i didn't ask you what mattered in the similarity. i asked you which selection mechanisms didn't matter, cos you said some selection mechanisms didn't matter. also, the selection IS the mechanism. and you say john gray knows nothing of evolution! sheesh.

but ignore all that because i have the final nail in the coffin that proves memetics isn't science. should have done this a long time ago:

the definition of science: (drum roll) knowledge covering general truths of the operation of general laws, as obtained and tested through scientific method [and] concerned with the physical world.

with the PHYSICAL world.

as many of you have said many times, memes are not physical, therefor they are not science.

you've been great.

Oh I almost don't believe it!!! Are you this stubbornly ignorant on purpose? It's the fact that the selection happens, not which particular mechanism it's using that is important in the evolution part of it. Genes use sex mostly, and memes use all the various ways ideas get popular (eg. people like them, or maybe people are forced into them as with theocratic laws, both of these examples result in selection).

Memes, ideas, concepts, beliefs, customs, rituals, all those things are not physically real either, but THEY DO AFFECT THE PHYSICAL WORLD, and are a part of how we behave and interact with it. Think things out please. Behaviours and beliefs can be measured, tracked, analysed, seen statistically, etc.

You have not been great. Tiring though yes, you've been tiring.

[Cecco]

'It's not reasonable for you to quote someone I've never heard of and then expect me to go chasing after everything he's ever read before having an opinion about the quoted part'

i don't expect you to read everything, just a bit more than his wiki page before judging him. it is unreasonable to presume you know him when you don't, that's all. you really will concede nothing.

behaviours and beliefs can be measured, but only in sociological terms, not in scientific. for example, the concept of freedom can only be discussed in sociological terms. there is no way to scientifically discuss freedom.

that which isn't physical isn't real. it is merely concept, merely philosophy. how on earth can you be sure that something that isn't physical exists? it is exactly the same defence as people who believe ghosts and spirits. everything that can be said to exist does so in the physical world. where else is there to exist? i would include every thing, thoughts, ideas, concepts, to exist in the physical world just like everything else. if you are claiming that for some reason human thought it special compared to everything else in the universe in that it exists outside of the physical world, then the onus is on you to prove it.

where do memes exist? where does something that isn't physical exist?

[Scented Nectar]

Cecco, it's good that I am usually a non-violent sort of person, otherwise I would have to graphically describe myself smacking you silly.

Arrrgh.

[Cecco]

question ducked. don't get so emotionally involved. forget ego. forget me and you. think only of idea. answer my last question.

[Scented Nectar]

question ducked. don't get so emotionally involved. forget ego. forget me and you. think only of idea. answer my last question.

My only emotion is frustration at your willful stupidity. Don't tell me not to feel that, since that won't go away until you stop being such a mixture of both ignorance and making up new ridiculous meanings into things. And answer your own last question. You have been nicely given enough explanations already to do so easily. You are quite a demanding one, aren't you? You are not owed answers to anything by anyone.

[Cecco]

ducked.

[Scented Nectar]

fucked.

[downbeatplumb]

where do memes exist? where does something that isn't physical exist?

I love my family.

[Edwardo Piet]

Do you believe in ideas? Do you believe ideas can develop, or "evolve" over time?

Yes?

Then guess what? You believe in memes. That's what memes are defined as. They are analogous to genes. That's where they get their name.

EvF