Richard Dawkins Faith In Memes Is As Blind As A Christian's to God

[Super Cynic]

Surely it is blatant that, despite the fact that we are biologically coded to believe in a god, that god indeed is a meme. The very fact that there are so many religions, and so many people around the world believe in a religion of some description shows that biologically, yes, we probably do want a god, but also, as there are so many religions, they must be memes also. Otherwise, how would you explain different cultures taking on different views in religion? Surely these views have been passed down via oral tradition or through culture?

I'm not sure whether I'm barking up the wrong tree, but it seems to me that this is evidence.

[Cecco]

nobody is disputing the definition, evf, what we're disputing is whether they exist as anything more than a concept, whether they exist as a true science in that they can be measured accurately in clearly quantifiable units.

and super cynic, may i just say thank you for a response that didn't have any personal slurs in. i do not claim to know exactly how ideas are passed from one brain to another - nobody knows for sure - but yes, of course there is some mechanism for mimicry and without doubt these views have been passed down through oral tradition and culture, i have never disputed that. all i am saying is that there is no evidence that ideas travel around specifically in individual pockets of non physical memes. they certainly travel, ideas certainly spread, but it is not certain that they travel in individual measurable units. it canot be ruled out that ideas are exchanged in much more different, tangible, perhaps more complex, ways. and so memetics is not yet science.

[Super Cynic]

nobody is disputing the definition, evf, what we're disputing is whether they exist as anything more than a concept, whether they exist as a true science in that they can be measured accurately in clearly quantifiable units.

and super cynic, may i just say thank you for a response that didn't have any personal slurs in. i do not claim to know exactly how ideas are passed from one brain to another - nobody knows for sure - but yes, of course there is some mechanism for mimicry and without doubt these views have been passed down through oral tradition and culture, i have never disputed that. all i am saying is that there is no evidence that ideas travel around specifically in individual pockets of non physical memes. they certainly travel, ideas certainly spread, but it is not certain that they travel in individual measurable units. it canot be ruled out that ideas are exchanged in much more different, tangible, perhaps more complex, ways. and so memetics is not yet science.

Well then, in terms of whether these memes can be measured scientifically, in units or in quantities, I would agree that there is no evidence towards this. This may be my own ignorance speaking, but I would deem it infeasable for something as abstract as, basically, an idea, to be able to be measured in a scientific way. It is a noodle-scratcher.

[Cecco]

well i never, i've struck likemindedness! i'm gonna be rich! oh no, wait, that's gold. but still, likemindedness is good! may god/nothingness bless you, super cynic.

[Scented Nectar]

Surely it is blatant that, despite the fact that we are biologically coded to believe in a god, that god indeed is a meme. The very fact that there are so many religions, and so many people around the world believe in a religion of some description shows that biologically, yes, we probably do want a god, but also, as there are so many religions, they must be memes also. Otherwise, how would you explain different cultures taking on different views in religion? Surely these views have been passed down via oral tradition or through culture?

I'm not sure whether I'm barking up the wrong tree, but it seems to me that this is evidence.

The concept of god is the meme itself, and maybe the individual religions would be subunits of that meme, and the many variations of each of those individual religions would be subunits of those subunits. I think that the existence of the units can be seen, but perhaps only measured in how popular they get.

Variations in the religions are mutations in that they get some things passed down and copied off of others, and some things are unique to the individual practicing it. If an individual's variation gets popular for whatever reason, it might be evolving into a new subunit of that religion unit, or if unique enough a brand new religion unit of the whole deity meme.

[Edwardo Piet]

Concepts exist in the brain and memes are defined as concepts that culturally "evolve" and are analogous to genes.

EvF

[Cecco]

i like that you are talking in maybes and perhaps's now scented nector.

once again, evf, nobody is disputing the definition. feel free to tell us again though. but no more than ten more times if possible.

[Edwardo Piet]

what we're disputing is whether they exist as anything more than a concept

Since you don't dispute the definition that they are concepts... why are you wondering if they are anything "more" than that?

EvF

[Cecco]

Are you shitting me evf? I advise you have a read through the entire thread.

[Edwardo Piet]

Memes are just concepts. The name is as an analogy for genes. Concepts evolve, memes evolve, same thing.

EvF