The Immorality of God - The Canaanites

[Cecelia]

Also: If the Cannanites were worshiping the wrong god and sacrificing children to the wrong god, wasn't that Yahweh's fault in the first place for not choosing them, and not telling them that he was the one true god? I mean I know we have free will as an argument for why Evil exists. But Yahweh wouldn't be interfering with Free Will of the Cannanites anymore than he interfered with the Free will of the Hebrews by revealing himself to them.

[Whateverist]

I'm here to enjoy good discussions. 

You?

Just looking for a chance to throw the first stone .. but you're so fast!

*Note to self: remember to lead him.*

[robvalue]

Haha, the wrong God. That just tickles me pink.

The bible has so many clues like this that numerous gods were considered to exist.

But consider the alternative: that these "evil" people were worshipping absolutely nothing at all. Yet, they all thought they were worshipping a real God, and couldn't tell the difference. This would be the bible itself telling you that a god can be entirely in your imagination.

[Esquilax]

Has anyone else pointed out that the Canaanite conflict wasn't so much "punishment for sins," as it was a greedy land-grab, yet? The whole reason god commanded that invasion was that he had promised that land to the Israelites and yet someone else was living there, so I guess the next question is: what imbues god with the authority to decide how land is to be shared, let alone who lives and who dies?

I asked this, in a broader sense, eight or nine pages ago and was completely ignored, almost like I'd pointed out the flaw with the basic premise that this sleazy apologism rests on.

[downbeatplumb]

Haha, the wrong God. That just tickles me pink.

The bible has so many clues like this that numerous gods were considered to exist.

But consider the alternative: that these "evil" people were worshipping absolutely nothing at all. Yet, they all thought they were worshipping a real God, and couldn't tell the difference. This would be the bible itself telling you that a god can be entirely in your imagination.

Number one of the ten commandments "I am the lord thy god thou shalt have no other gods before me" there you go, an admission that he was one of at least several gods. otherwise I am the lord thy god obviously because there aren't any others so you know I am number one out of a choice of one.

[Brian37]

Many people argue that God acted immorally in the Old Testament when He ordered the Israelites to destroy the Canaanites who were living in the land that God had promised to Abraham and his descendants. However, there are several reasons why this is a poor argument.
 
First, if God does not actually exist, then the accounts of His deeds in the Old Testament are meaningless fables, and it does not matter what these stories claim about God.
 
Second, if the purpose of objecting to Old Testament accounts is to hold God and His followers to a standard of behavior, then it is reasonable to ask whose standard should be used and why?
 
Third, if believers in the Judeo-Christian God are to answer for God’s actions in their scriptures, then it seems reasonable to examine the justifications for and explanations of those actions as offered by them including:
 

1. The Canaanites were actually a perverse people, and God patiently waited 400 years (from the time of Abraham to Joshua) allowing the Canaanites time to amend their evil ways. Instead, their wickedness actually increased, so God used the Israelites to punish the Canaanites for their sins – just as He had punished all mankind by means of the flood earlier, the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, and even the Israelites themselves by means of forty years spent in the wilderness and the Babylonian captivity. Clearly, God was no harder on the Canaanites than He was upon His own people.
   
2. The Canaanites had the opportunity to flee; by choosing to stay and fight, they resisted God and sealed their own fate. 
   
3. It is evident that the Israelites didn’t literally kill every single Canaanite man, woman and child, because the Canaanites continued to appear in the Bible long after the time when they were allegedly wiped out. It is more likely that the authors of the Old Testament books used metaphorical or hyperbolic language to express the message they wanted to convey about Israel’s victories over the Canaanites.
   

 
Each of these points suggest that there is nothing inconsistent or contradictory about the Judeo-Christian view of a God who is both loving and capable of wiping out evil.

Ironically, atheists often ask, “If God exists, why doesn’t He prevent evil?” The destruction of the Canaanites is an example of God putting an end to evil practices (such as child sacrifices to a false god) just as these atheists demand. Unwilling to let go of this convenient (if impotent) cudgel, however, atheists continue to object to God’s judgment and destruction of the Canaanites—a clear example of wanting to have it both ways.

Finally, while objections to the immorality of the God of the OT may explain why one may not be Jewish or Christian, they offer only an incomplete explanation for why someone is an atheist since there are many alternative views of God that do not require acceptance of anything from the Bible.

No, that is not how it happened. 

First off, it is completely immoral to invade land and take it that does not belong to you. Secondly if God is all powerful should not have to use humans to commit violence for him, or use violence himself for that matter. God doesn't exist in any case. But the story is still immoral as a motif.

THE REAL reason you see this story is because the early Hebrews were a splinter sect of the Canaanites, the god Yahweh is taken from their polytheistic pantheon. The splinter sect simply elevated the lesser god Yahweh to one god and then wrote stories demonizing the prior tribe they belonged to.

Just like Islam is a splinter sect of Christianity, and they incorporate Jesus but at the same time bash Christianity. 

The god Yahweh of the OT is the same polytheistic god of the Canaanites. The god  of Abraham is the same god of all three religions in any case. And all of them are made up and stem from Canaanite polytheism.

[Brian37]

All religions in human history start the same way. The people seeking to start them take characters and motifs from surrounding and or prior religions and rewrite the stories to suit their own new agenda.

[Minimalist]

First off, it is completely immoral to invade land and take it that does not belong to you.

But...but... THAT might be the only xtian "value" that "murrica is founded on.

(Kill the Indians and steal their land.)

[Brian37]

First off, it is completely immoral to invade land and take it that does not belong to you.

But...but... THAT might be the only xtian "value" that "murrica is founded on.

(Kill the Indians and steal their land.)

Don't get me wrong, I am no fan of "sins of the father being used to blame me for something I wasn't around to do. But that crap about demonizing the Canaanites is exactly why some sickos claim that it was because of Christianity that the Americas were made civilized. 

It is also why Jews justify land grabs in Israel. Provoke a fight, then call the responders savages. Just like Europeans did to Natives.

NO NO NO NO that isn't justifying anyone being wiped off the map. Just exposing the bad logic ALL religious use to justify harm to their neighbors. All three religions are equally guilty of painting the outsider as uncivil. This literary device of demonizing outside tribes is in all three books.

Paint the other as bad, you have instant lemmings who will kill for you.

[Nihilist Virus]

 
First, if God does not actually exist, then the accounts of His deeds in the Old Testament are meaningless fables, and it does not matter what these stories claim about God.

This is why we use the word IF. IF God exists THEN he is a mass-murdering, slavery sanctioning, genocide ordering evil deity.
 

Second, if the purpose of objecting to Old Testament accounts is to hold God and His followers to a standard of behavior, then it is reasonable to ask whose standard should be used and why?

How about the standard you threw at me? Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

And why this standard? Well if you don't like it we can agree that it is to be removed from discussion.


 

Third, if believers in the Judeo-Christian God are to answer for God’s actions in their scriptures, then it seems reasonable to examine the justifications for and explanations of those actions as offered by them including:
 

1. The Canaanites were actually a perverse people, and God patiently waited 400 years (from the time of Abraham to Joshua) allowing the Canaanites time to amend their evil ways. Instead, their wickedness actually increased, so God used the Israelites to punish the Canaanites for their sins – just as He had punished all mankind by means of the flood earlier, the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, and even the Israelites themselves by means of forty years spent in the wilderness and the Babylonian captivity. Clearly, God was no harder on the Canaanites than He was upon His own people.
   
2. The Canaanites had the opportunity to flee; by choosing to stay and fight, they resisted God and sealed their own fate. 
   
3. It is evident that the Israelites didn’t literally kill every single Canaanite man, woman and child, because the Canaanites continued to appear in the Bible long after the time when they were allegedly wiped out. It is more likely that the authors of the Old Testament books used metaphorical or hyperbolic language to express the message they wanted to convey about Israel’s victories over the Canaanites.
   

 

The Jews made a golden calf and worshiped it. Doesn't that mean they deserved to be utterly wiped out?