TBR starts The Quran Reloaded!

[ReptilianPeon]

The deceit of Satan is weak. 
But humans themselves are created weak.

How did you quantify weakness? Satan is pretty strong compared to humans. There are no hormones involved in weakness like there are with emotions like love and anger, before anyone says how can emotions be quantified.

Quranically speaking, you could argue that al-Saud and their henchmen are the work of the Shaytan because of Quran 5:91 "Satan's plan is (but) to excite enmity and hatred between you, with intoxicants and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of Allah, and from prayer: will ye not then abstain?"

Did you know that people fighting in Syria take drugs as stimulants to help them fight? Captagon is an "intoxicant", and like the Quran say, it is fueling war between the Ummah. Obviously, I don't think that the Quran is divine, but for those who do then I think it's a pretty strong case for Satan being quite powerful.

These "intoxicants" (amphetamines) are allowing people to fight longer and harder, as the Quran says will happen thanks to the power of the Shaytan. Did the fighting stop during Ramadan like it should have done? No. Then again, I'm not sure where this idea of stopping fighting as soon as the clock strikes midnight on the last day before Ramadan starts came from.

Though, we can hold against it; resist. But without God, we are doomed against Satan.

I dunno. Allah has killed so many more people than the devils have done. Let's see: Noah's flood, Egyptians plagues and everyone struck by lightning because Allah willed it (Quran 13:13*). And that's missing out on a lot of deaths directly as a result of Allah's micromanagement I'm sure.

*Quran 13:13 "Nay, thunder repeateth His praises, and so do the angels, with awe: He flingeth the loud-voiced thunder-bolts, and therewith He striketh whomsoever He will.. yet these (are the men) who (dare to) dispute about Allah, with the strength of His power (supreme)!"

You can refer the number of souls losing the race, but you didn't refer to the other souls that defeated the demon. Blaming him totally is wrong, because we won't commit the negative action unless we by our own selves, agree and decide to take Satan's advice.

Well people from the Ummah have no problem blaming spiritual entities for their problems, and people do conduct exorcisms. And, by the way, if Saran is so weak then why should humans worry about the devils? Or is the Shaytan really not that weak? People do exorcisms they believe the devils are strong.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGX8A5_9-So

God is just. If he was a dictator -as many claim-, he would do what you exactly suggested, MNMP : not create Satan- Connect humans to ropes like dummies - move us around like sheep; like the puppets we are.

But if the universe is designed, as many claim, Allah created, and maintains, the rules - like a totalitarian dictator does. The universe has not been left to its own devices according to the Quran. Allah intervenes. I've already mentioned Quran 13:13, Noah's flood and the Egyptians, but there's more: If Allah is saying "you'll go to the hellfire if you don't agree with me" that's like Hitler. Hitler sent people who didn't agree with him to the camps, which are like the hellfire. Or it's like the Mafia: Give me what I think I deserve or I will inflict serious pain on you.

Our weakness is not bad. It's a two edged weapon. After all, one of the main reason for believing in God, is human weakness.

So, Allah made humans weak so it could 'stroke its ego'? I'm still trying to get my head around the point of creating anything. Why does Allah need us humans? Does Allah become more powerful the more people do Salat everyday?

God knew that Satan would rebel, but he also knew that Satan would be a good creature for a very long time (before it turns into a demon), God gave Satan its chance.

For the sake of all humanity Allah could have done the right thing and stopped it from becoming a demon. It seems as though Allah created the Shaytan with the purpose of misleading humanity? Does the Quran kit say that Allah only guides whom it will?

You know, if I was a devil I would have never have rebelled, knowing the power of Allah. Does the Shaytan think that it can win against Allah? Can you explain to me the point of delaying the win of Allah?

He gave us an opportunity to live. All of us agreed to this life, and in this life, he -God- created other beings who also have the ability to think, like Satan.
God is not a puppet master, and life is not a show for puppets.

Not everyone agreed to this life. That's silly. The starving Syrian children, surely would not agree to come into their miserable lives if you asked them before they were born. If you showed Allan Kurdi his fate, do you think he would have agreed to that? He had his fifteen minutes of fame and them people went back to not caring.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Why is blaming Satan (always) a terrible mistake? Satan is so powerful compared to humans. Satan should get the blame at least some of the time.

Allah created Satan knowing that the angel would not bow before humans (Adam). And Sata rebelled against Allah knowing it would lose. So Allah foresaw the suffering of humans but decided to do nothing about it. Allah created a flawed creation either be accident or on purpose, neither of which are good options.

Quran 43:62 says this: "Let not the Evil One hinder you: for he is to you an enemy avowed."

How could I objectively tell that I'm being hindered (misdirected) if Satan, as Quran 35:5* says, is the Chief Deceiver? Wouldn't Satan be constantly finding new ways to device? Satan knows Allah better than any humans and I'm sure it can imitate Allah reasonably competently.

*Quran 35:5 "O men! Certainly the promise of Allah is true. Let not then this present life deceive you, nor let the Chief Deceiver deceive you about Allah."

The deceit of Satan is weak. 
But humans themselves are created weak. 
Though, we can hold against it; resist. But without God, we are doomed against Satan. 

You can refer the number of souls losing the race, but you didn't refer to the other souls that defeated the demon. Blaming him totally is wrong, because we won't commit the negative action unless we by our own selves, agree and decide to take Satan's advice.

Our weakness is not bad. It's a two edged weapon. After all, one of the main reason for believing in God, is human weakness.

God knew that Satan would rebel, but he also knew that Satan would be a good creature for a very long time (before it turns into a demon), God gave Satan its chance. 

God is just. If he was a dictator -as many claim-, he would do what you exactly suggested, MNMP : not create Satan- Connect humans to ropes like dummies - move us around like sheep; like the puppets we are.

He gave us an opportunity to live. All of us agreed to this life, and in this life, he -God- created other beings who also have the ability to think, like Satan.
God is not a puppet master, and life is not a show for puppets.

If you don't know who formatted the Koran into chapters and numbered verses why would you believe what it says about anything?

[robvalue]

Pull up a Jew and stop what you're doing, it's Quran Reloaded time..

[mralstoner]

The video makes as much sense as the Koran, so it's a perfect fit.

[ReptilianPeon]

Isn't the Quran people read today the 1936 Cairo edition? But I have to say, I'm curious as to.who formatted the Quran into chapters and verses (do you know Wyrd of Gawd?) I'm not sure if the formatting was done in Egypt too.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Isn't the Quran people read today the 1936 Cairo edition? But I have to say, I'm curious as to.who formatted the Quran into chapters and verses (do you know Wyrd of Gawd?)  I'm not  sure if the formatting was done in Egypt too.

I haven't been able to find any information about that.  My hunch is that Marmaduke Pickthall did it but I can't find anything that proves it.  Maybe someone can provide additional information.  It just seems strange that everyone today cites chapter and verse when referring to the Koran even though it wasn't originally formatted that way.  If that's all true then it's an excellent example of mass brainwashing.

This link is very informative http://mb-soft.com/believe/txo/koran.htm.  Unfortunately it doesn't appear to answer the question.

[Losty]

I think you take some things too seriously Atlas. These guys are screwing around and having a joke.

Have you been in the humour section of our site? There's some wicked funny stuff there you know. One of the staff members acting like a cock for cheap laughs, I heard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnysDz2SSMg

I don't agree with you rob.

First of all, I think Marylin is a very very smart and talented individual. If what you're saying is true, I wouldn't be having Saint & Sweet Dreams in my playlist. 

Second, I have the right to be offended when a certain comedy touches my race & my skin color. You can get what I feel, if you said the N word to a dark skinned guy in Compton. 

Third, what I cited at 15:38 is an attitude issue, I know that atheists would make fun of religion, joke about it and all. But for somebody to have a conversation with me, just to turns out that he is laughing from the inside or waiting for me to leave to make fun of me in front of others..well, sorry rob, but I have a sense of dignity. I wouldn't do that to an atheist, Christian or Jew. It hurts, and makes me feel bad. I can't be sorry for feeling like that. 

Forth, if I'm hotheaded, I wouldn't be here for like 3 years. 
Yes, I was led to explode before, but it was never permanent. I never dealt with atheists in my real life; maybe one or two, the language is foreign to me, so sometimes I feel a little bit defensive. But I'm not a hotheaded guy who takes things too seriously.

1) Marylin Manson isn't even the original artist of that song.

2) This thread is about the Quran. It has nothing to do with your race or your skin color. Or did I miss something.

[robvalue]

I can't wait for the next episode!

I learnt so much from just the first Surah. It seems quite possible that the extremely divisive attitudes presented right from the start could account for why Islam tends to fit in less well with a mixed society than Christianity does.

[ReptilianPeon]

Wyrd of Gawd, I think I could be Abdullah Yusuf Ali (who is about three years older than Marmaduke Pikthal) but I have no proof (his Quran provides some handy footnotes which I like and I think I will investigate him further). I'd also like to know who decided the Quran should not be in chronological order (which would make more sense).

Maybe bring all of your evidences and create a topic? Perhaps Surah were created to make the Quran easier to read? Like how the Vedic Chants would preceeded their written form (I assume) and then people were forced to better organized them.

[WinterHold]

How did you quantify weakness? Satan is pretty strong compared to humans. There are no hormones involved in weakness like there are with emotions like love and anger, before anyone says how can emotions be quantified.

Quranically speaking, you could argue that al-Saud and their henchmen are the work of the Shaytan because of Quran 5:91 "Satan's plan is (but) to excite enmity and hatred between you, with intoxicants and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of Allah, and from prayer: will ye not then abstain?"

Did you know that people fighting in Syria take drugs as stimulants to help them fight? Captagon is an "intoxicant", and like the Quran say, it is fueling war between the Ummah. Obviously, I don't think that the Quran is divine, but for those who do then I think it's a pretty strong case for Satan being quite powerful.

It's pretty contradicting to cite the strength of something, yet ask how weakness is quantified in relation to it.
If the context is known, then weakness and strength can be easily identified.
For example, if we took a gym where people hit to lose weight, a weak individual would be the person who fails to achieve the goal (i.e losing the extra weight), and a strong person would be the one who was able to achieve his/her goal.
If Sonya's friend though, is seducing her with food all the time, and Sonya agrees. Then, is Sonya's friend strong ? or is Sonya weak ?
Anyhow, we knew the context, so we can come up with a conclusion about who is strong and who is weak. 

Coming back to what we've been discussing, quantifying strengh or weakness depends on your source: as Satan is invisible to me, then I have to listen to somebody who can see it: in this case, I'm taking God's POV about it.
I didn't get what you mean by hormones.

As for the verse you quoted, the verse specifically refers to alcohol, AKA (Khamr = خمر),  in Arabic, the word "Khamr" which is mentioned in the verse, refers specifically to that. Probably a Sunni source added that "S" to the translation. Everywhere I go I see this disgusting forgery, I'm an Arab so it's insulting. They translate "Khamr" which is a singular, to "Intoxicants", just to match their Fatawa. In Arabic it's read as a singular word "Khamr" which literally means "alcohol/wine/...etc", these brands, the alcoholic drinks. 

And again, MNMP, the Quran is a book. Quoting one verse can sometimes lead to misunderstanding. The verse before this one said :

(Sura 5 Verse 90 )   O you who have believed, indeed, Khamr, gambling, [sacrificing on] stone alters [to other than Allah], and divining arrows are but defilement from the work of Satan, so avoid it that you may be successful.

God said avoid. He didn't say "don't do it". The problem is in gambleing and drinking when they are committed together. By my guest  and play a poker game with a group of young drunk fellas ( and get drunk with them)
It turns bloody sometimes and people are losing fortunes to such act, to the level of having therapies for quitting gambling, and alcohol too. So Allah didn't porhibit us from a bad thing.

Ah, I know that alcohol & drugs are everywhere in Syria. Maybe that's why civilians are falling like flies. That's not the best example, MNMP. 
After all, I have nothing against drugs like Marijuana. But alcohol ? That's just poison (literally; hence its name), it's sick, it causes disasters (from domestic abuse to car accidents).

I dunno. Allah has killed so many more people than the devils have done. Let's see: Noah's flood, Egyptians plagues and everyone struck by lightning because Allah willed it (*). And that's missing out on a lot of deaths directly as a result of Allah's micromanagement I'm sure.

*Quran 13:13 "Nay, thunder repeateth His praises, and so do the angels, with awe: He flingeth the loud-voiced thunder-bolts, and therewith He striketh whomsoever He will.. yet these (are the men) who (dare to) dispute about Allah, with the strength of His power (supreme)!"

The cycle of life is just like that. Actually, we also die when we sleep.

But anyhow, Satan is smarter than this. its hatred to humanity made it come up with the lame cause of trying to get us into hell. Death is nothing; it wants us to get into hell.

Well people from the Ummah have no problem blaming spiritual entities for their problems, and people do conduct exorcisms. And, by the way, if Saran is so weak then why should humans worry about the devils? Or is the Shaytan really not that weak? People do exorcisms they believe the devils are strong. 

We were created weak, that's why.
So weak, that a demon who sold his soul to hellfire is capable of fooling us.

As for the people of the Ummah who fell for such weird things, they should've payed more attention to these verses :

( Sura 17 62 )   [Iblees] said, "Do You see this one whom You have honored above me? If You delay me until the Day of Resurrection, I will surely destroy his descendants, except for a few."

( 63 )   [Allah] said, "Go, for whoever of them follows you, indeed Hell will be the recompense of you - an ample recompense.
( 64 )   And incite [to senselessness] whoever you can among them with your voice and assault them with your horses and foot soldiers and become a partner in their wealth and their children and promise them." But Satan does not promise them except delusion.

Just for the record: foot soldiers & horses are metaphors. They are not meant to be taken literally. The other verses elaborate that.
These verses here, are the proof, that demons don't posses people.

But it bring a lot of money to act like a ghost buster. In the Middle East, it's a busy market.

But if the universe is designed, as many claim, Allah created, and maintains, the rules - like a totalitarian dictator does. The universe has not been left to its own devices according to the Quran. Allah intervenes. I've already mentioned Quran 13:13, Noah's flood and the Egyptians, but there's more: If Allah is saying "you'll go to the hellfire if you don't agree with me" that's like Hitler. Hitler sent people who didn't agree with him to the camps, which are like the hellfire. Or it's like the Mafia: Give me what I think I deserve or I will inflict serious pain on you.

Well, the word dictator is not an insult or a bad thing unless you're a human or a creation. What's bad about dictators here on earth, is that they are humans trying to play God. 

As for Hitler, Hitler was a human, who knows that he's a human with limited memory cells and thinking ability, he sleeps and (excuse me for it) poops, he cannot see the unkown, he cannot even remember how it was when he was an infant, he knows that he cannot see the matters of all Germans or answer their calls (it's simply impossible for him no matter how much he tries). The same applies to each human dictator.

Comparing Allah to a mere man is simply wrong. 

 
As for God, his dictatorship makes the sun rise and sets, makes the moon come up, makes you and me breath...etc. His dictatorship is life.

I actually don't know if this word can be applied to him. I mean the universe is forcing us to some standards, and I think it would be totally to say that the universe is "a dictator".

So, Allah made humans weak so it could 'stroke its ego'? I'm still trying to get my head around the point of creating anything. Why does Allah need us humans? Does Allah become more powerful the more people do Salat everyday?

He doesn't need us. He's not human. He's something else.
Humans need. God doesn't.

Your mentality, MNMP, is dominated with the thinking that God is a humanoid. 
What God does is that he creates. An entity that creates, and provides life to his creations.

Worshiping him is living.
That's why "shirk" is so despised; because it's an ideology that turns God into a humanoid entity.

For the sake of all humanity Allah could have done the right thing and stopped it from becoming a demon. It seems as though Allah created the Shaytan with the purpose of misleading humanity? Does the Quran kit say that Allah only guides whom it will? 

You know, if I was a devil I would have never have rebelled, knowing the power of Allah. Does the Shaytan think that it can win against Allah? Can you explain to me the point of delaying the win of Allah?

God doesn't judge by our standards. 
Why do you expect him to rule by your logic ?

Or let me say : I -the human- don't agree with you. I thank him for introducing me to life, and pray to him that I live on in heaven, knowing for sure that sick twisted people like Satan will get what they deserve.

Ah, you're seeing "human Satans" here on earth : despite knowing that they will get destroyed and die and get put to -what they believe- is an eternal sleep, they press on with warfare and destruction. There are many atheists militants and fighters.

What Satan did, is what happens when your own personal ego eats you up. I don't think God is sick, but I indeed know that Satan is.
He knows he won't win against God.

But he can totally win against many of Adam's kin.

Not everyone agreed to this life. That's silly. The starving Syrian children, surely would not agree to come into their miserable lives if you asked them before they were born. If you showed Allan Kurdi his fate, do you think he would have agreed to that? He had his fifteen minutes of fame and them people went back to not caring.

If we enjoyed a single moment (just a single one), then we agreed to this life.

The afterlife is real though. This life is a test. The children of Syria, were a portion of the exam for Iran, Assad, the U.S & the rest of the world.
Those kids will get a decent fate in the other life. While the ones who failed the test (from Assad to the Iranian Malali to the UN's double standards, count the Sauds),will burn & burn in hell.

Becoming an atheist will not bring the dead back. Instead, it will make their deaths evaporate into the void.