Differences between cultures

[Rev. Rye]

Rev -

Just a thought. How can you really stop people from denying the holocaust, or anything else? All you can really do is punish people if you catch them coming out with it, but you can't stop them from thinking it. And the thing is, when anyone has a thought about anything, sooner or later they'll communicate it. I don't see the point.

I was just trying to make a rhetorical point: When the Germans committed genocide, they owned up to it. When the Turks did it, they not only did not, but tried to pressure other countries to not, and even made it illegal to acknowledge it (See Article 301 of the Turkish Penal Code "Insulting Turkishness.") Even a Nobel Prize-winning author, Orhan Pamuk, got prosecuted for acknowledging that there was a plan to wipe out the Armenians a few years ago.

As for genocide denial laws, I admit that it's hard to enforce the laws, and I personally think that, ideally, such laws shouldn't even be necessary (indeed, it took 40 years for the law to happen.) I brought it up to show how willing the German people are to admit that their people committed an act of genocide against 6 million Jews and at least four million others sixty years ago, and contrast this with the way the Turks feel about owning up to their killing 1.5 Armenians ninety years ago. And, if not for the "Insulting Turkishness Law," I wouldn't have even mentioned the law banning Holocaust Denial.

[Godhead]

Rev -

Fair enough. But I'm a big believer in free speech, and the concept of "better out than in", as they say (albeit in a different context altogether). Some people don't believe that the holocaust happened, others do but perhaps not to the extent that is told, and they do have a right to articulate their views. The term "denial" implies saying that something which is true, is not true. But everyone has a different opinion, and in their minds (please not the distinction : in their minds) they're not denying anything, as far as they're concerned they're saying what they think is true. You see when you deny people the right to say what's on their minds, in other words when you restrict their expression of thought, which is a basic human need, it shows up in other ways. It's best to let everyone say their piece, that way you'll have an awareness of what people think, and then you have the opportunity to counter their views with your own. I've never liked the term "holocaust denial", it sounds like 1984. Do I believe that the holocaust happened? I don't know, probably, most likely yes. But even if I believed that it didn't, I'd have every right to say so. You can't educate people if you don't know what they already think. You have to objectively separate your emotions about a subject from the right to express any view. Anyway we're straying off the topic, if you want to get into this further I'll be happy to, if you want. For now let's just talk about culture.

[Pope Alfred]

In most cases, I'd go along with that. The Holocaust is different, IMO, in that it's hard to imagine anyone denying it - against such overwhelming evidence - unless they were pushing a nasty fascist agenda.

[Godhead]

Pope -

True, they could. But the principle of free speech still stands, don't you think? I mean, don't you want to have a heads up on people who do have a nasty agenda? You can't know that if you don't get to hear what they think, and then make a judgment. It's better than having them expressing their views secretly, where you can't know what is being said, and then one day all of a sudden...

[Pope Alfred]

Yes, there's some truth in that, but I can't help feeling this is a special case. So do a number of completely democratic governments who have to cope with these people. They're not necessarily right, of course, but the step was taken after much thought and study by serious and responsible people.

[downbeatplumb]

How did it get from favourite culture to genocide denial in less than two pages?

By the way my favourite culture..............penicillin.

[Edwardo Piet]

3 of my close family blood relatives are allergic to that.

In fact I'm the only boy that isn't in the close genetic family. Go me! I win!

EvF

[Rev. Rye]

How did it get from favourite culture to genocide denial in less than two pages?

By the way my favourite culture..............penicillin.

Sorry, but when I read "least favorite culture", I admit that my mind went to the turks for the reason that they have enshrined genocide denial.