Gay, Catholic and Doing Fine

[Brian37]

Why are you so angry?

If you met me at a dinner party, you'd probably think I was a pretty nice person. You disagree with my views, but I haven't said anything particularly rude or out of line.

So, where is YOUR anger coming from, and why is it directed at me?

Because you sit here and tell us that we are substandard humans because we don't believe in your stupid old book.  It gets really annoying after, like, the millionth time. You have no justifiable, rational reason to believe the damn thing is worth more than toilet paper, let alone structure your entire life around it.  And then find the balls to look down other people -from- of it.  

He also said being a Catholic is hard. Reread the first paragraph I quoted.

It's fine to look to the implication of what he's saying as well. You can't just focus on whether or not something is explicitly said.

The point was that it's hard but rewarding enough to him that it made him very happy. I'm pretty sure he's not wishing ill will upon anyone. At least that's not at all what he said.

Intent aside, it is still a judgmental attitude, and one not based on modern understanding of biology. It is still and old book and that book is still chalk full of xenophobia and bigotry, which teaches self loathing and dependency on the cosmic boss. There is no polite way to put it.

You are doomed even before you can formulate an adult thought. And based on what? "Sins of the father". Why should you or I for that matter have to run a lifetime of a gauntlet from birth to death because of what Adam and Eve did? Not that it was a real story, but the ideal is utterly vile to me looking back now. That would be like blaming me for slavery even though I wasn't around back then.

AND the worst part is as the story goes, Adam and Eve were innocent, and they ended up being poker chips in a bet between God and Lucifer. They had no say in the set up, they were given no explanation, they were not asked for their input beyond Adam getting to name the animals. And Eve is the very first story scapegoating a women, treating her as the cause as if Adam was her victim not partner. Looking at it now, both those characters as a motif are victims.

I know believers don't like viewing it in a negative light, I get that. But from Genesis all the way through the bible, humans are not treated as independent thinkers they are only treated as "thinkers" as long as they promote the tribe or glorify the tribe and defeat outsiders. AT BEST the books of Abraham will tolerate outsiders and minorities as long as they accept their place in the social order.

Once you buy that you are "chosen" of course from your point of view you are not being condescending, but to those who don't share your religion it does come across as such. 

Thats why we prefer believers try to stick to providing evidence, rather than preach about what they like believing. We know what you believe, many of us were in a religion. The real question believers need to ask themselves WHY do you feel the need to be "chosen". And unless you have scientific evidence that their is a superior race or religion, then all you can say is you picked a club you like.

There are 7 billion humans, 10,000s of sects of all the worlds major religions and even more small obscure religions. It seems to me absurd for any religion worldwide to claim to have special powers or even special insight as to human morality or even a working scientific understanding of why humans are either cruel or compassionate.

We don't think we are right based on mere opinion. And we don't think we are right because we think we are more moral or better. We too are still individuals. We take the position that there is no god because science currently is running at an increasing pace away from that gap answer. Our modern knowledge is leaving those old claims in the dust. Just like we know the earth is not flat, and that is ok. 

Giving up on old claims and bad claims is how humanity progresses and learns and grows.

[Catholic_Lady]

TLDR.

That and your posts tend to be very aggressive. Sowwy.

[drfuzzy]

This book?    

Fucking exactly.  Yet, we atheists have no possible way of ever knowing the difference between right and wrong.  What a joke.

Brace yourself, Fuzzy!  Here cometh the tsunami of religious apologetics!  *grabs plastic tarp and hangs on for dear life*

I'll predict the first one:  "You have to consider that stuff in context!"

Yeah.  "You took it out of context!"  "You're not reading it prayerfully!"  or one of my Mother's favorites:  "The Bible is perfect! Absolutely perfect! There are no contradictions and no errors! You think you see a problem because you're a stupid, foolish, disrespectful, evil child!  God will explain it all to us when we get to heaven."  
Plastic tarp, hell.  Hip-waders, rain-cape, and an astronauts' helmet for me.  

[Wyrd of Gawd]

According to the favorite ethnocentric Middle Eastern Jewish and Arabian fairy tales being a practicing homosexual will get you thrown into the lake of fire or Islamic hell. It might be OK to do a lot of other things but they don't like that.

[Mr.wizard]

He is sacrificing living his own life to its fullest; sacrificing living his life as a person EQUAL in value, equal under the LAW, to all other people in the world based on the petty, baseless rules from a really, really old book.  

This is what saddens me about religion...to see how its teachings can cause person to literally discriminate against themselves.  

If making a commitment to celibacy makes him happy and he's happy with his life and his decision, then I don't see why anyone would object.

The problem is not with his choice to be celibate but with the message that homosexuality is wrong. He also thinks the church being against homosexuality is a good thing because it denies him things he wants, that's all fine and good for him, but the church opposes gay marriage for everyone and fights to deny rights.

[Brian37]

He is sacrificing living his own life to its fullest; sacrificing living his life as a person EQUAL in value, equal under the LAW, to all other people in the world based on the petty, baseless rules from a really, really old book.  

This is what saddens me about religion...to see how its teachings can cause person to literally discriminate against themselves.  

If making a commitment to celibacy makes him happy and he's happy with his life and his decision, then I don't see why anyone would object.

If he is basing it on pragmatic reasons, like avoiding STDs, or simply not wanting to commit or financial reasons, those are real reasons. But male or female, gay or straight, monogamy or partnership does not need a reason based on an old book. 

I am 49 I am celibate too, and not for religious reasons. I simply went through dating and marriage, and even all the stupid risks I took as a teen and young adult, and am glad I got through it. I had the one love of my life and for now at least, that is enough for me.

[LadyForCamus]

TLDR.

That and your posts tend to be very aggressive. Sowwy.

What does TLDR mean?

[Catholic_Lady]

Too long didn't read.

I feel bad, but I'm just not in the mood right now lol.

[Catholic_Lady]

If making a commitment to celibacy makes him happy and he's happy with his life and his decision, then I don't see why anyone would object.

If he is basing it on pragmatic reasons, like avoiding STDs, or simply not wanting to commit or financial reasons, those are real reasons. But male or female, gay or straight, monogamy or partnership does not need a reason based on an old book. 

Well I don't think it's a problematic reason. It's a matter of opinion. He's Catholic, not atheist, so of course you'll both have different ideas on what a "good reason" is.  The point is, it's his decision to make, and he claims to be happy with it.

[Brian37]

Too long didn't read.

I feel bad, but I'm just not in the mood right now lol.

I don't think it is too long for you. If you want to go back to it fine. But don't hand me that it is too long. 

The only time I skip over giant walls of texts with no breaks, but that is because with out separate paragraphs I lose my place easily.