Feel the Bern!!!

[Edwardo Piet]

He's sexist and racist? I've never seen him be either of those things I hope he isn't.

[GrandizerII]

I changed my mind about Bernie after listening to what Sam Harris had to say about it in his latest AMA podcast. I know how it sounds, but it made sense. Admitedly, some of what he said was said by others here on these very forums before and it didn't change my mind then, but he made a new argument and I trust his take on it more than my own.

I used to like Sam Harris, mostly because of is Dangerous Ideas presentations on determinism, but the more I see from him, the more I wish he'd shut the hell up.  He's sexist, racist, and is a poor representative of atheists.  It's not like we elected him, yet many people act like what he says, we all must believe.  I don't mean you, Imean how theists often use him to misrepresent atheists.

Anyway, you are entitled to your opinion, though.

I still like him in general as a person. But when it comes to politics or even ethics, he's got views that I just find abhorrent.

[Excited Penguin]

I changed my mind about Bernie after listening to what Sam Harris had to say about it in his latest AMA podcast. I know how it sounds, but it made sense. Admitedly, some of what he said was said by others here on these very forums before and it didn't change my mind then, but he made a new argument and I trust his take on it more than my own.

I used to like Sam Harris, mostly because of is Dangerous Ideas presentations on determinism, but the more I see from him, the more I wish he'd shut the hell up.  He's sexist, racist, and is a poor representative of atheists.  It's not like we elected him, yet many people act like what he says, we all must believe.  I don't mean you, Imean how theists often use him to misrepresent atheists.

Anyway, you are entitled to your opinion, though.

Why do you think he's a sexist and a racist?

 I won't take issue with your criticizing him as a poor representative for atheists, as I don't think he strives to be any sort of representative for anyone. That's what politicians are for. Sam is not a politician. He's a neuroscientist and a writer with a following of like minded people(including me), that's all. Besides, Sam has criticized the usage of the label atheist in the skeptical community before, so here's where your criticism particularly fails.

I know I'm entitled to my opinion, silly, I don't need you to tell me what I'm entitled to.  That said, I hope we can have a friendly discussion about this without getting inimical for no good reason.

[GrandizerII]

He's sexist and racist? I've never seen him be either of those things I hope he isn't.

I'll let Aroura expound on that (if he/she wants), but if there's really one view of his that disturbs me is that had he had a magic wand and had to choose to do away with either religion or rape (but not both), he'd choose religion.

[Excited Penguin]

I used to like Sam Harris, mostly because of is Dangerous Ideas presentations on determinism, but the more I see from him, the more I wish he'd shut the hell up.  He's sexist, racist, and is a poor representative of atheists.  It's not like we elected him, yet many people act like what he says, we all must believe.  I don't mean you, Imean how theists often use him to misrepresent atheists.

Anyway, you are entitled to your opinion, though.

I still like him in general as a person. But when it comes to politics or even ethics, he's got views that I just find abhorrent.

Emphasis added

---

Which views would those be? Care to elaborate?

[Excited Penguin]

He's sexist and racist? I've never seen him be either of those things I hope he isn't.

I'll let Aroura expound on that (if he/she wants), but if there's really one view of his that disturbs me is that had he had a magic wand and had to choose to do away with either religion or rape (but not both), he'd choose religion.

I agree with him on that, 100%.

Here's the full quote. http://thesunmagazine.org/issues/369/the...son?page=2

[Bob Kelso]

I can't say that I've ever cared to hear anything he's had to say, just not interested.

The more I see from Dawkins, on the other hand, the keener my wish is for him to stick to biology.

[Excited Penguin]

I can't say that I've ever cared to hear anything he's had to say, just not interested.

The more I see from Dawkins, on the other hand, the keener my wish is for him to stick to biology.

What's that about Dawkins? Why?

[TheRealJoeFish]

He's sexist and racist? I've never seen him be either of those things I hope he isn't.

Well, here's how I'd put it: he has some rather unfortunate views in these regards.

Harris's worldview seems to be that religion is a present, affirmative threat to personal and national security; this understanding of his often results in behavior and opinions remarkably reminiscent of post-9/11 Iraq war proponents. He believes torture is appropriate in a fair number of circumstances, and in a dialogue with Noam Chomsky (in which I don't believe either party argued particularly effectively) he essentially argued that military action by the U.S. against middle eastern civilians is justified by the U.S.'s broader intent. He's spoken positively of, although as far as I can tell has not advocated for, curtailing the entry of Muslims into the country while allowing Christians in. His views on Muslims align almost perfectly with Cruz and Trump; whereas a great many atheists (myself included) believe that Islam is harmful, Harris espouses that muslims are harmful.

Additionally, he is very blunt and tone deaf regarding women, essentially suggesting that women shouldn't worry too much about their rights here and that feminism should instead focus its efforts on destroying religion (especially Islam).

Harris is a thinker who has a lot of really good things to say and a fair amount of not so good things. I agree with him on many things but find some of his views somewhere between silly and abhorrent. I find Harris, like Dawkins and PZ Myers, to be someone we can learn a ton from while recognizing that not all of his many opinions deserve respect.

[TheRealJoeFish]

I can't say that I've ever cared to hear anything he's had to say, just not interested.

The more I see from Dawkins, on the other hand, the keener my wish is for him to stick to biology.

What's that about Dawkins? Why?

Not to answer for SD, but, basically, from my point of view, he seems to be swiftly crossing the line from anti-feminism into misogyny.