A question about the flood myth, baraminology, and Pangaea

[IATIA]

In order for the floodwaters to have covered the mountain in that time, it would have had to rain 17.55 inches of rain per hour that entire time. No flash flood? The heaviest sustained rainfall on record is Tropical Cyclone Denise, at 71" in a 24-hour period, or 2.95 inches per hour, back in 1966.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_we...cords#Rain

The record rainfall for 1 hour is 13.8".

Rainfall Records

[TheRocketSurgeon]

In order for the floodwaters to have covered the mountain in that time, it would have had to rain 17.55 inches of rain per hour that entire time. No flash flood? The heaviest sustained rainfall on record is Tropical Cyclone Denise, at 71" in a 24-hour period, or 2.95 inches per hour, back in 1966.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_we...cords#Rain

The record rainfall for 1 hour is 13.8".

Rainfall Records

I don't know what that website is... but the NOAA says it was nowhere near that hard, about 15" in the space of two hours, and still caused catastrophic flash flooding:

A notable flood of short duration and high intensity occurred during the night of August 4-5, 1943, in central West Virginia. The affected area was about 50 miles long and 10 miles wide in the diamond-shaped Kanawha River Basin, with elevations generally ranging from about EL 600 to EL 1500 (Figure below). Point rainfall amounted to as much as 15 inches in 2 hours. According to the U.S. Weather Bureau (1943), the record-breaking rains were accompanied by “one of the worst, if not the worst, electrical storms of record.” 

There were 23 deaths due to the flood, all of whom lived along relatively small tributaries. Six precipitation gages in the area recorded rainfall depths of only 0.31 inches to 5.0 inches, failing to provide a complete picture of the scattered intense rainfall pockets in the area. Representatives of the Corps of Engineers, the Weather Bureau, and the West Penn Power Company thoroughly investigated the storm, interviewing local residents and obtaining an additional 118 data points from the amount of water collected in pails, tubs, jars and other containers that were uncovered and open during the storm.

http://www.floodsafety.noaa.gov/states/wv-flood.shtml

All that said, I'm talking about long-term sustained rainfall, of the "Forty days and forty nights" type, to a height enough to cover Mt. Ararat... you don't even want to know the numbers if Everest and Chhoghori (K2) need to be covered for this fairytale!

[Cyberman]

NOAA? Shit. don't say this bible crap's got something right..!

[TheRocketSurgeon]

NOAA? Shit. don't say this bible crap's got something right..!

[Chas]

Your irony was not at all apparent.  People actually make this error in thinking.

See my later post, theists don't have a monopoly on talking nonsense.

What point are you trying to make?

[Cecelia]

I'm mostly just enjoying watching this, since I'm really busy, of late.

However, I had to jump in here... when I worked at the KDHE, the Environment department (mine) shared a floor with the Geology department. Literally every geologist working there whom I met was a Christian, complete with office bibles, pins on lapels, and the various desktop debris that lets them announce their faith to the world. They were among the most religious bunches I met in a science field. All of them knew as much about evolution as I do; in fact, geologists had the timeline and nature of evolutionary history figured out before biologists did.

As for the "flash flood", do a little math, Drich. We'll say that only Mt. Ararat was covered, as a lowball figure, since the story doesn't mention Everest. Mount Ararat is 16,854 feet tall. It rained, according to the story, for 40 days and 40 nights. That's 40 x 24 = 960 hours of rain.

In order for the floodwaters to have covered the mountain in that time, it would have had to rain 17.55 inches of rain per hour that entire time. No flash flood? The heaviest sustained rainfall on record is Tropical Cyclone Denise, at 71" in a 24-hour period, or 2.95 inches per hour, back in 1966.

Even if you say that half the waters were from "the deep", you're still talking 8.775 inches per hour, nonstop, for almost a month and a half, day and night.

No flash flood? Really?

Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_we...cords#Rain

I think you forgot to convert the height of Mt. Arrat to inches.  Because 17.55 inches of rain would be 16,848 inches of rain or just 1404 feet.

[TheRocketSurgeon]

I'm mostly just enjoying watching this, since I'm really busy, of late.

However, I had to jump in here... when I worked at the KDHE, the Environment department (mine) shared a floor with the Geology department. Literally every geologist working there whom I met was a Christian, complete with office bibles, pins on lapels, and the various desktop debris that lets them announce their faith to the world. They were among the most religious bunches I met in a science field. All of them knew as much about evolution as I do; in fact, geologists had the timeline and nature of evolutionary history figured out before biologists did.

As for the "flash flood", do a little math, Drich. We'll say that only Mt. Ararat was covered, as a lowball figure, since the story doesn't mention Everest. Mount Ararat is 16,854 feet tall. It rained, according to the story, for 40 days and 40 nights. That's 40 x 24 = 960 hours of rain.

In order for the floodwaters to have covered the mountain in that time, it would have had to rain 17.55 inches of rain per hour that entire time. No flash flood? The heaviest sustained rainfall on record is Tropical Cyclone Denise, at 71" in a 24-hour period, or 2.95 inches per hour, back in 1966.

Even if you say that half the waters were from "the deep", you're still talking 8.775 inches per hour, nonstop, for almost a month and a half, day and night.

No flash flood? Really?

Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_we...cords#Rain

I think you forgot to convert the height of Mt. Arrat to inches.  Because 17.55 inches of rain would be 16,848 inches of rain or just 1404 feet.

Good catch!

Yep... I forgot to multiply the feet by the number of inches in a foot. Ugh. S'what I get for trying to rush something because my focus is elsewhere. Or trying to have my focus elsewhere and hurry. Take your pick.

So yeah, take all the figures I did and multiply it by 12 to make inches/hour. 

Height of Mt. Ararat: 16854 ft x 12in/ft = 202,248 inches. 

202,248 in  /  960 hrs = 210.675 inches per hour of sustained rainfall.

Half of that, to account for their claims of water from "the fountains of the deep" (???) would be 105.3375 inches per hour, or roughly 7.6 times harder than the hardest hourly rainfall ever recorded (in WVa). Ever.

Another interesting thought occurred to me, while I was redoing my calculations...

The present claim being addressed in the discussion was that the salt and freshwater didn't combine because everything was so gentle that it couldn't have churned up the freshwater lakes, and thus they were able to remain saline-free without intermixture. Then why, on the other hand, does the Answers In Genesis crew claim the Grand Canyon was carved when the floodwaters receded, so violent was the rush of all that water? It's not a workaround for the problem of freshwater lakes, to say that the fountains opened up; it makes the problem worse, because apparently the rush of such waters to and from "the deep" is violent enough to carve canyons!

My favorite thing I found while trying to look up how long and how the AiG crew claims for the formation of the Canyon, I found this interesting tidbit on the NCSE website:

The basic idea [proposed by AiG] is this: the lowest rocks of Grand Canyon (green), such as the Vishnu Schist and the Zoroaster Granite, were formed on Day Three of Creation, with the commandment, “Let the dry land appear” (Genesis 1:9). Some creationists pin this event at 4004 b.c. For a while people populated the earth, and sediment formed on this new land; geologists call this sediment the Grand Canyon Supergroup (red).

According to some calculations, the Flood began in the year 2348 b.c. (the timing of which might have rather inconvenienced the reign of Pharaoh Unas of Egypt, though he never complained about it in any of the written records from the time). In Grand Canyon: Monument to Catastrophe, creationist Steve Austin describes what happened next:

Massive erosion occurred as the upheaval moved and flexed great bodies of earth’s crust including [Grand Canyon Supergroup] strata.

(Italics for quoted section and the bold emphasis, as usual, are my own.)

http://ncse.com/blog/2013/12/creationist...re-0015274

[Wyrd of Gawd]

If it rained for 40 days and 40 nights that's 960 hours of continuos raining.  

If Mt. Ararat is 16,854 feet tall that means that the water depth was actually 16,874 feet, because the water was 20 feet over the top of the tallest mountain.

So given a height of 16,874 feet and 960 hours it means that it would have had to rain 17.57708333 FEET PER HOUR.  That's 210.925 INCHES OF RAINFALL PER HOUR.

I was once on a planet where it rained 767 inches per hour for 1,872 hours. I thought it was a heavy rain but the locals said that they get a lot worse every century or so.

[robvalue]

Creationism is on the rise in some places?

That is really depressing.

[Expired]

See my later post, theists don't have a monopoly on talking nonsense.

What point are you trying to make?

I'm not usually into doing a page long essay, but as you seem interested I will make an exception.

The point I was making was about the fact that dumping an extra 29000 feet worth of water on the earth would have had catastrophic effects on the atmosphere, I said something like" Noah would have been cold and most animals would struggle to survive"
Let me explain what I meant by that, I'm sure you have heard of the "El Nino" phenomena, this event often begins off the coast of South America aptly near Christmas time. El Nino events cause disruption of the ocean-atmosphere system in the tropical pacific and are in part responsible for weather that can cause loss of human life. They start with weakening of east to west trade winds and warming of eastern pacific ocean waters. This results in tropical rainfall shifting from Indonesia to South America. During non-El Nino conditions trade winds blow west across the tropical pacific and the warm surface water tends to pile up so that the sea surface can be 0.5m higher at Indonesia than at Peru, but hey what's sea level? Now the important bit, these are natural phenomena and part of the dynamic coupling  of the earths atmosphere and ocean, fucking around with this system by dumping lets say 10000 feet more water upon the earth would interrupt the natural cycle of ocean-atmospheric coupling. Earths atmosphere is a dynamic system that is changing continuously while undergoing both physical and complex chemical processes. The atmosphere is composed of gas molecules held close to the earths surface by gravitation and thermal movement of air molecules, water vapour is also present in the lower few kilometres of atmosphere. The atmosphere is a continuously changing system. Physical movement of air masses, each with different temperature, pressure, moisture, and aerosol content, two important bits that we can measure are temp and pressure, pressure is force per unit area obviously, so as the area of the oceans increased the pressure would have decreased. Fuck this I can't be arsed.