My views on objective morality

[bennyboy]

CL, let me talk about the morality of free will. A rapist has the free will to rape a child. You console yourself, perhaps, with the knowledge that he will eventually be held account by God for his actions. But what of the child? The child, you may say, will be rewarded with an eternity in heaven-- though he/she hasn't done anything particularly worth of reward.

It seems to me that God's version of free will shows a willingness on his part to let innocents suffer in order to give sinners enough rope to hang themselves. And they do so by their own nature, which was anyway established by God. It seems to me that if such a God is real, only a bad person would do anything but openly rebel against him.

You shouldn't be preaching the gospel. You should be burning it. Because YOU seem to me like a good person.

[Whateverist]

What? Animals kill their babies all the time. Lions especially, come to mind.

Yep, sometimes you got to do the tough thing instead of what your heart tells you.

[God of Mr. Hanky]

What? Animals kill their babies all the time. Lions especially, come to mind.

No, CL, they don't kill their own offspring - they defend them to their own death. Those which do not have socially-evolved genes may kill the cubs of others, because they present an obstacle to them sowing their own genes with the mother.

[God of Mr. Hanky]

If they don't want to be clothed, then that's fine. It's about helping people in need, not making them do something they don't wanna do.

But making them do what they don't wanna do is, and has been what missionaries have always done in practice.

[Ryantology]

The objective truth about objective morality: It is a term people apply to their own morals in order to create the illusion that their own morals are superior to anyone else's. Otherwise, it is a term without meaning or value.

[God of Mr. Hanky]

He is God, so killing babies would be whatever He made it be. But in the world we live in, and the God I know/believe in defines goodness as loving your neighbor as yourself, treating others the way you want to be treated, feeding the hungry, giving drink the to thirsty, clothing the naked, etc... things like that. That is what He has established to be goodness. If killing babies was good, then the word "good" would literally have an entirely different meaning

Do you read what you type?

Is it not a fact that some babies die which do not die by the fault of any living person?  This either means that God is not good, God is not powerful enough to save babies, or God does not in fact share your definition of goodness.  Are you going to tell us that little dead babies are going to live out eternity as angels?  If so, with what personality?  What will replace the egoes which they never had the chance to develop?

Clothing the naked?  The Bible specifically tells Jesus followers not to worry about clothes, because they will be clothed by God.  So look at the freezing poor.  Where are the clothes that God promised?

I don't care much that you don't believe in the Bible.  But if you think God is both powerful and good, then there is a world full of evidence which contradicts you.  Or, to be blunt, you are more interested in maintaining your happy beliefs than in embracing reality.  Nothing but your imagination supports your Pollyanna world view.

Too bad Catholics don't follow their bibles

[Mystic]

[LadyForCamus]

[bennyboy]

Too bad Catholics don't follow their bibles

Too bad God doesn't fit their definitions of goodness, as well.

[God of Mr. Hanky]

From what I understand it's not that goodness exists independent of God neither does it exist on the whims of God, but rather God himself is that morality, that standard, and God is not arbitrary nor does he will on whim but rather wills according to ultimate greatness which is not abitrary.

The thing is if God cannot create morality without it already always existing, the same is true of evolution which he can create and can create everything that evolution can create. So there is a problem with saying God cannot but evolution can.

Therefore the way I see it is that morality always existed. Now morality takes vision, comprehension, a perception. This shows that an eternal perception of it always existed. This is only possible with a living being. 

The Greatest greatness cannot be but a living reality. That perception of ultimate greatness and moral perfection is knowledge of itself, and witnessing and testimony to it's absolute living reality.

Morality is not eternal - human morality, to be specific, did not exist prior to the evolution of humanity, and it will cease to exist when we are all gone. Your god wasn't there when evolution began because he exists strictly within the heads of his believers, and there weren't any believers around then.